User talk:Hans-Friedrich Tamke

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Cree
Do you speak Cree at all? We consider it undesirable to add words in a language that is unfamiliar. Dictionaries are often misleading or inaccurate in ways that only a hative speak can see.

We also want all Cree words in their native spelling. We (and other dictionaries) offer transcription as a way to provide access to the word for people who cannot read the Cree symbols, or for people who cannot see then on their computer. When we do have transcriptions, we use only one system, not all of them at once. This means that a speaker of Cree should help decided which transcriotion system to use; we cannot simply take three different versions wholesale from three different dictionaries. Each dictionary is using a system it thinks is appropriate, but that does not mean all three are appropriate to have here. Transcription must be consistent to be useful. --EncycloPetey 16:26, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Translations
Please do not add back-translations in Translations sections. That is, do not add a translation into English in parentheses after a translation into German from English. Such information goes on the entry for the word, not in a Translations section. --EncycloPetey 07:46, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Note: the "xs=" in the tempate is not used except for very obscure languages. You do not need to add them, because a bot adds them when they are needed. --EncycloPetey 02:20, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

giudeo
According to this edit you made, this is a masculine noun, but has a feminine meaning. Is that correct? --EncycloPetey 19:47, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

hidog
Why can't this just be defined as male dog. It seems redundant to me to say: dog (i.e. male dog or he-dog). What is a he-dog exactly? Jamesjiao → T ◊ C 00:51, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

dogil
Is this supposed to be an endearing term? If it's just a normal term to refer to a small dog, then the use of doggie is inappropriate. doggie is an endearing term used by children to refer to pretty much all dogs. I don't know this language, but it just seems to be out of place to me. correct me if i am wrong. Jamesjiao → T ◊ C 00:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Yiddish
Please don't add superfluous transliterations. One is enough. If what you want to express is differences in pronunciation, learn IPA. — [&#32;R·I·C&#32;] opiaterein — 17:36, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Also, do not put plurals in translation tables - in any language. The singular is sufficient. — [&#32;R·I·C&#32;] opiaterein — 17:37, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

predicative case
Surely this is used in more languages than Volapük. Nadando 03:12, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

intelligent design
Aren't most of the Derived Terms in this article just Sum Of Parts? AugPi 02:23, 21 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, that wouldn't be a problem as long as the articles aren't actually created...  AugPi 02:26, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Country-Country words
German-Canadian, Norwegian-Canadian, etc. = Are you sure these are really helpful for a dictionary? It seems like compound "Nation-Nation" words are obvious in general and don't convey any additional meaning when strung together. Tempodivalse [talk]  20:33, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've nominated the lot for deletion here. You can give your input there if you wish. Best regards, Tempodivalse [talk]  20:57, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Plurals, Low German or otherwise
It's customary not to double-categorize plurals as both nouns and plurals. Also the head word (in bold) goes under the ===Noun=== header. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:24, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Pagelunen etc.
No big thing, but, if you create a page that you later feel is in error, it is better to insert a tag (often called a "speedy") than to blank the page.
 * Separately, Autoformat picks up lines in a translation section that have both Low German and Low Saxon in them. When they show up on clean-up lists, I have been deleting "Low Saxon", leaving "Low German". Does it matter which I delete? Which is preferred (Why?) ? DCDuring TALK 16:18, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the terms Low German and Low Saxon can have multiple definitions, depending on the writer. Both terms can have broad or narrow definitions. For example, some writers include Old English, Old Saxon, Old Frisian, and Old Dutch in a very broad definition of Low German as historically Low German languages as opposed to High German (i.e. Standard High German and the Middle German and Upper German dialects). Others use Low German as a synonym for the modern Low Saxon dialects, including (and sometimes excluding) Dutch Low Saxon (multiple dialects) and German Low Saxon (multiple dialects). Others subdivide Low German (Low Saxon) into East Low German (East Low Saxon) and West Low German (West Low Saxon), using the two terms synonymously. Other writers label the western Low German dialects as Low Saxon and label the eastern Low German dialects as East Low German. Apparently some Dutch Low Saxon speakers and writers (take offense and) do not like to refer to their dialects as Low "German", preferring the term Low Saxon. In Dutch the term they use for their dialects is Nedersaksisch (Low Saxon). There is both a Nedersaksisch (Dutch Low Saxon) Wikipedia (using an orthography based on Dutch) and a Plattdüütsch (Plattdeutsch, German Low Saxon) Wikipedia. It is not called the Neddersassisch Wikipedia (Neddersass'sch Wikipedia). The Plattdüütsch Wikipedia uses (mostly) a North Low Saxon-based orthography developed by the German Low Saxon linguist Johannes Sass (or Saß). For many, Low Saxon is short for North Low Saxon. So in summation, it is not easy to decide which term to use, Low Saxon or Low German. I use both terms. I prefer the term Low Saxon or even New Saxon (cf. Old Saxon, Middle Saxon, New Saxon and Old Low Saxon, Middle Low Saxon, New Low Saxon). I assume that the Dutch Low Saxon speakers and writers would prefer the term Low Saxon (a more politically correct term). Have an excellent day! Hans-Friedrich Tamke 19:50, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there any prescription from ISO about the use of the code ("nds") or are the various parties fighting over the label to be associated with "nds"? What should I do about items in the translation table that have both names. I now delete whichever is in parenthesis. DCDuring TALK 21:08, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The language code "nds" (ISO 639-3 - nds – Low German (generic), according to the Wikipedia article) is used for Low German in general and the code "nds.nl" is used for Dutch Low Saxon. The Dutch Low Saxon Widipedia homepage URL is: . The Plattdüütsch (German Low Saxon) homepage URL is: . For more information, check out the articles: Dutch Low Saxon  and Low German (Plattdüütsch, Nedderdüütsch, Standard German Plattdeutsch, Niederdeutsch; Dutch Nedersaksisch) . I am not sure what should be done with the labels. Maybe two labels could be used: nds-nl for Dutch Low Saxon (Dutch "Low German") and nds-de for German Low Saxon (German Low German). Hans-Friedrich Tamke 21:41, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't understand the issues but it seems worth suggesting to Liliana fka PrinceKassad. DCDuring TALK 23:29, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * It might be late or irrelevant, but there is such a thing as: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:About_Low_German  - feel free to participate and have a look at the discussion.Dakhart 01:15, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Translations of adjectives
Please give only the lemma form of an adjective translation, not all the possible nominative singular forms. --EncycloPetey 01:31, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Requested entries (Volapük)
There are other Volapük words to be added in there, if you know any of them; I'm just asking. --Lo Ximiendo 18:07, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll try to add some of these requested Volapük words if I already know them or can find their meanings. Hans-Friedrich Tamke 18:14, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You can also put it on your watchlist, if you want to, because I put requested words there sometimes. --Lo Ximiendo 00:11, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Volapük translations
Please note my changes here to your translation contribution. This is the format you should use for the translations. Thanks for your contributions, but please use this format. :) 50 Xylophone Players talk 01:30, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The problem with this change is that it is misleading for Volapük, since this language does not have a gender for nouns like French (m, f) and German (m, f, n). In Volapük, the word dog (this is not a masculine or feminine noun) means a "male or female dog", hidog (this is not a masculine noun) means a "male dog", jidog (is not a feminine noun) means a "female dog". I originally spelled out the full words as qualifiers in front of each word, like this:,  ,   and only later changed this to  ,  ,   because it was much shorter. If these abbreviations for the actual sex of the animals (not the gender of the nouns) is not acceptable, then I guess I could go back to writing out the full words, but I would prefer not to do this. Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 02:25, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm, maybe this is something that needs to be discussed more, but I think perhaps it might be a good idea to use a format whereby you would only link to the "lemma" for translations (take it to be the male form) and in that entry have the female form and such shown. Take for example the French entries chien: and aviateur:; those terms have grammatical gender due to being French obviously, but the possible biological gender variation carries into their alternate forms. Also, another thing I noticed is our trans table for dog: for the first, "basic" sense as in the kind of animal simply lists chien: as the translation. 50 Xylophone Players talk 15:33, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

o dinosaur
WT:TR is discussing this. Foremost among my concerns, Volapük indicates that Volapük doesn't even have a vocative case. Mglovesfun (talk) 08:55, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

About Yiddish
Hi! I recently created this page, which is meant to have a centrally located repository of information about the standardized treatment of Yiddish on Wiktionary. I'm giving you this message because you have shown interest in Yiddish, and we need your help! The page especially needs better coverage of the many undocumented headword-line and conjugation templates, but any assistance is welcomed. Please feel free to edit the page, and to raise any issues for discussion at Wiktionary talk:About Yiddish. Thanks so much!

Derived terms
Hi Hans-Friedrich, you added a huge list of "derived terms" to the entry Haus (and many others in the past). However, most of them are invalid. For example, plural forms don't belong there, only singular forms. Sum-of-parts terms such as Willkommen zu Hause!: shouldn't have entries either. And AFAIK, only terms directly derived from Haus rather than from a compound that contains Haus should be listed: For example, all the words that start with Haustier- are derived from rather than Haus ( itself is fine in this list, of course). There are even terms that don't even contain Haus (, which is furthermore probably SOP). Longtrend (talk) 09:58, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comments. I have broken down the one long list of words into multiple sections and have deleted the plural forms. I think this improves the page without needlessly deleting too many of these useful German words and phrases. Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 23:14, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Low German
Moin! Following several discussions, which culminated in WT:RFM#nds, nds-de, nds-nl, the various Dutch varieties of Low Saxon which had separate codes (Drents, Twents, etc) were merged into the code nds-nl (which had always represented generic Dutch varieties of Low Saxon). The various German varieties of Low German (Westphalian, etc) were merged into one code as well. Previously, nds had been used as the code for generic German varieties of Low German, and "Low German" had been used as the header. However, many people had assumed that <tt>nds</tt> and the header ==Low German== referred to both the German and Dutch varieties at once—or, interpreted another way, the header actually had been used both for "both varieties" and for "German only"— so the RFM replaced them with <tt>nds-de</tt> and ==German Low German== for maximal clarity. I have been slowly updating the entries to this format.

I notice that you changed Duuv to use "Low Saxon (Low German)". Wiktionary never combines two languages into one header, and headers must always match language codes. Also, the guideline for Dutch Low Saxon nouns is that we, like nds-nl.WP, don't capitalise them, so if "duuv" is an attested Dutch Low Saxon spelling, it should be at [[duuv]] (though the Dutch Low Saxon WP uses "doeve", "doef", "duve" and "doewe"). Please comment in the RFM if you disagree with the mergers of the subdialects (or think the merger should go further, e.g. combining both the German and Dutch macro-varieties), or comment on the talk pages of WT:ANDS, WT:ANDS-DE and WT:ANDS-NL if you have questions or suggestions. Cheers, - -sche (discuss) 00:43, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

fête
Do you believe the word fête is pronounced "fight" in Quebec French ? Fête (talk) 02:55, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The vowel sound ⟨ê⟩, as in the word ⟨fête⟩, is a diphthong in Quebec French and is pronounced something like [faɛ̯t]. The English word "fight" is pronounced [faɪ̯t], or in Canadian English, it is usually pronounced [fʌɪ̯t]. The English diphthongs are pronounced quite differently  depending on the variety of English spoken by each individual speaker. Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 09:01, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

The word fête is not pronounced "fight" in Quebec French ? See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te69JK28DDo Fête (talk) 14:53, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The Quebec French diphthong that this man uses in his pronunciation of fête does indeed sound very similar to the English diphthong in the word "fight". For more detailed information on Quebec French diphthongs, you can go to the following webpage. - The Pronunciation of Canadian French by Douglas C. Walker - http://people.ucalgary.ca/~dcwalker/PronCF.pdf - Have an excellent day! Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk)

Attestability
You've been adding a lot of Volapük terms, but most of them are not actually attestable. Per WT:CFI, Volapük requires three uses in durably archived media, and I can't find any uses of words like. Just because a word can exist does not mean that it does exist. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 05:01, 19 February 2013 (UTC)


 * The word " = Geburtshelfer, Accoucheur" (p. 349) was taken from the "Wörterbuch der Weltsprache für Deutschsprechende: Vödabuk Volapüka pro Deutänapükans (German-Volapük Volapük-German Dictionary) Arie de Jong (Author), Michael Everson (Foreword)" [2012. Cathair na Mart: Evertype. ISBN 978-1-904808-89-3 (hardcover)]. In the case of a word like gaaporn "lovebird" (] gaaporn (=,agapornis' lat.) = Sperlingspapagei, Wellensittich, Inseparabel), this basic word exists in Volapük. It may be the only word listed in a dictionary or vocabulary list. This does not mean that other derived or related words "don't exist" or "can't exist", they have simply not been listed for this particular relatively uncommon basic word, unlike a more common word such as the word ""  and some of its derived or related forms ("gokabäset", "gokaböd", "gokafrikaset", "gokahauk", "gokalecek", "gokanögacärm", "gokated", "gokatedan", "gokavultur", "gokaxänöm", "gokayad", "gokibrid", "gokil", "higok", "higokafäitül", "higokakomip", "higokakrav", "higokil", "komipahigok", "kuvajigok", "kuvajigok", "koedön kuvön jigoki", "nifagok", "nögamajigok", "vatagok"). Even if no Volapükist has ever used or even seen the words "higaaporn", "jigaaporn", "gaapornül", "gaapornülik", "gaapornülem", "higaapornül", "jigaapornül", "gaapornil", "gaapornilem", "gaapornik", "gaapornem", "gaapornakap", "gaapornakapil", "gaapornagöb", "gaapornahoned", "gaapornaplüm", "gaapornaplüms", "gaapornaplümem", "gaapornaflitäm", "gaapornaflitäms", "gaapornalog", "gaapornalineg", "gaapornabäkabom", "gaapornalög", "gaapornalögs", "gaapornanäst", "gaapornalecek", "gaapornibrid", "gaapornibridan", "gaapornasüm", "gaapornasümik" (all these words are only given in their nominative case form), he will recognize these words as legitimate Volapük words if he understands the basics of Volapük word formation or word creation. Because of the very nature of Volapük (an agglutinative language) and therefore its very great capacity to "create" new words at will (basically ad infinitum), especially its ability to create new compound words (it is very similar to German in this respect), it is impossible to list or record every possible well-formed Volapük word in a dictionary (and it is not really necessary). A Volapük vocabulary or dictionary can only give a fairly limited sampling of the more common Volapük words and then the user is able to create more words, especially by analogy to the words already listed, which is usually quite limited, because of the limited number of people presently using or attempting to use Volapük. The more example words a person sees the better, then he can create his own words based on the principles of Volapük word formation. With this said I can restrict myself to adding only "attested" Volapük words to the English Wiktionary and still add thousands of words. Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 10:20, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand that, but you haven't really addressed the problem that itself is completely unciteable. Dictionaries don't count (see WT:ATTEST). Even if they are "listed", they do not necessarily exist; they must be used in Volapük books or magazines or newspapers or usenet groups first. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 14:43, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

If "dictionaries don't count" for a constructed language like Volapük, then following this rule, one apparently cannot cite the very words created and used (because they are "completely unciteable") that the creator of Volapük (Volapük Rigik), Johann Martin Schleyer, himself used in his own dictionaries. This same rule would apply to Arie de Jong's two-way bilingual German-Volapük Volapük-German dictionary written using revised Volapük (Volapük Nulik ). Will the words kujöran, hikujöran , jikujöran listed in the online Volapük Vükivödabuk need to be deleted since the creator of these pages cites the Wörterbuch der Weltsprache as his source? (I did not create those pages.) In that case a large number of the pages created and put online in the Volapük Wiktionary, using words from the Wörterbuch der Weltsprache, will have to be deleted, if they cannot be found in other sources (especially presently quite limited online sources, such a scanned books or magazine and newspaper articles that might cite these particular words, sometimes only used once). What about any of the words (possibly some only found in the book Kleinstes Wörterbuch der Weltsprache mit den 300... ) created by Johann Martin Schleyer, are they truly unusable for the purposes of the English Wiktionary? There are quite a few other bilingual dictionaries (and grammars) online, are these also useless as sources for Volapük words that can be used to create new entries for the English-language Wiktionary? Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 00:00, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know anything about the Volapük Wiktionary (vo.wiktionary.org), but these are the rules for the English Wiktionary (en.wiktionary.org). There is a clause that says that one use in a "well-known work" suffices, so I think words found in books written by Schleyer are OK, but not words that are only found in wordlists or dictionaries without usage examples. (By the way, this is not just constructed languages. Please see WT:ATTEST for more.) So yes, I think words like jikujöran should be deleted if you cannot cite them. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 00:10, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Delete the English Wiktionary page for the Volapük word jikujöran (and any or all other pages with derived or related words) if you wish. Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 02:23, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * We have a process here called RFV (click the link for the page) which is for people to attempt to cite words before they get deleted. I'd rather not delete them iff they can be cited, and we'd probably have to go word by word. If you know or have (or can and wis to create) a list of unciteable Volapük words, that would help. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 02:52, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi! The terms you added [//en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Kind&diff=19430408&oldid=19394102 here] contained a number of soft hyphens. I'm guessing that was in error... soft hyphens should not be used in links. (I removed them in [//en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Kind&diff=21037348&oldid=20143149 this diff].) - -sche (discuss) 05:49, 14 June 2013 (UTC)


 * You are still adding terms that cannot be attested per WT:ATTEST, like Wikiwöörbook. Please understand that you are not improving the dictionary when you do this, merely making more work for others. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 23:06, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

pen (female swan)
I'm a little confused about what's going on here. The word "pen" refers specifically to a female swan, but as far as I can tell, it seems like you've added translations that mean "swan", "male swan", and "female swan". Is there something I'm missing? Mr. Granger (talk) 20:28, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * This is the reason I added the three words svan, hisvan and jisvan. Unlike in many or possibly most natural languages, in Volapük there is a systematic three-way split in all the nouns for every sexual animal (including human beings, e.g., Kanadänan, hi-Kanadänan, ji-Kanadänan). This is also true for the constructed languages Ido and Novial. One word is used for either a male or a female (♂♀) (i.e., the sex of the animal is left unspecified or not made explicit for whatever reason), a second word is used for a male only (♂) and a third word is used for a female only (♀). The Volapük word svan is an epicene noun, with the meaning of a [male or female] "swan" (or "swan" in a more generic sense), thus this single word can include the meanings "swan" (male or female swan [sex unspecified] or swan [generically speaking]), "cob" (male swan) or "pen" (female swan). The word jisvan means "pen" or literally "she-swan". For the sake of completeness and to emphasize this systematic three-way split in Volapük for the sex of swans, I also added hisvan, which means "cob" or "he-swan" (The Story of Elmer, the Don Swan: ). Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 22:24, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand how those Volapük prefixes work, but the fact remains that pen only means female swan - one would never translate it as hisvan or svan. Information about those words should certainly be included in the entry for svan, but not in the translation box for pen. Mr. Granger (talk) 22:42, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Can you please stop adding ridiculous lists of words to translation boxes? It is not reasonable to include virfazano, fazanino, fazanido, virfazanido, and fazanidino all as Esperanto translations of the word "pheasant". A reader who wants that extreme level of detail will no doubt be quite willing to go to the page for fazano and find it there. (If all those words are even attested, which I highly doubt.) —Mr. Granger (talk • contribs) 22:12, 6 December 2013 (UTC)


 * "Le faisan [Esperanto: ] est un gibier à plume appartenant à la famille des s [: j]. Il se distingue par son aux couleurs très variées, en particulier chez le  [eo:, , , , ]. Le faisan a le corps , un  élégant, une  très rapide et aisée. Le plumage est remarquable par l' et la variété des couleurs chez le mâle. Dans leur premier âge, les faisandeaux mâles [eo: j, j] et femelles [eo: j] ont le même plumage . On distingue les sexes par la couleur de l'iris, qui est blanc chez le coq, brun chez la poule [eo: , , ]. La  a lieu à l'automne, et les mâles commencent alors à prendre leur plumage d'adulte."
 * Here's an excerpt (another ridiculous list of words) taken from: Harrap's New Standard French And English Dictionary - Volume One - French—English A—I (London and Paris 1981)


 * faisan [fɛzɑ̃, fəzɑ̃] s.m. 1. (coq) f., (cock) pheasant;
 * f. doré, golden pheasant; f. de chasse pheasant
 * (phasianus colchicus); f. de chasse de Chine,
 * Chinese ring-necked pheasant; f. bruyant,
 * grouse. 2. P. crook.
 * faisances [fɛzɑ̃ːs, fə-], s.f.pl. dues in kind paid by tenant
 * farmer over and above his rent.
 * faisandage [fɛzɑ̃daːʒ, fə-] s.m. Cu: hanging (of
 * meat, esp. game); allowing (of meat esp. game)
 * to get high.
 * faisandé [fɛzɑ̃de, fə-], a. (a) high, gamy (meat); (b)
 * F: spicy (story); (c) F: decadent (literature,
 * aristocracy, etc.).
 * faisandeau, -eaux [fɛzɑ̃do, fə-], s.m. young pheas-
 * ant, young poult.
 * faisander [fɛzɑ̃de, fə-], v.tr. l. Cu: to hang (meat,
 * esp. game). 2. P: to cheat.
 * se faisander to get high.
 * faisanderie [fɛzɑ̃dri, fə-], s.f. pheasantry, pheasant
 * preserve.
 * faisandier, -ière [fɛzɑ̃dje, -jɛːr; fə-]. l. a. phea-
 * sant (tribe, etc.). 2. s. pheasant breeder.
 * faisane [fɛzan, fə-] s.f. (poule) f., hen
 * pheasant.


 * Here are more of the same ...ridiculous lists of words... (that ought to be added to this or possibly another Wiktionary).


 * ĉevalo: cheval / kavalo / horse
 * virĉevalo, ĉevaliĉo, stalono: étalon / kavalulo / stallion, he-horse
 * ĉevalino: jument / kavalino / mare, she-horse
 * ĉevalido: poulain / kavalyuno / foal
 * virĉevalido, ĉevalidiĉo: kavalyunulo / colt
 * ĉevalidino: pouliche / kavalyunino / filly


 * English: hissy fit (Was zum Kuckuck soll das bedeuten? Deutsch: Wutanfall, Wutausbruch)


 * Have an excellent day! Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 09:19, 8 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I don't quite follow what all these French words have to do with what I'm saying. —Mr. Granger (talk • contribs) 15:55, 8 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you should spend your efforts on Wikisaurus entries rather than cluttering dictionary entries with anything-that-might-be-construed-as-somehow-distantly-sort-of-connected-to-the-lemma-if-you-squint-and-look-cross-eyed-at-it-while-standing-on-your-toes-and-leaning-sideways sorts of terms. Either that or just save time and put:


 * Special:AllPages
 * on every page. Chuck Entz (talk) 07:27, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Volapük etymologies
Could you make them simpler? They're really hard for me to understand because there's just so many brackets and other details. You really don't need to elaborate on the etymology of each part of a word down to the smallest detail. That's just duplicating the information that is already in other entries. 01:58, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

The same applies to the definitions you've been adding to plural forms. That's just duplication and it makes maintenance more difficult. What if someone wants to change the definition of the main entry? Should they update all the forms as well? They're probably not going to do that so it will become a mess with different forms having different definitions. It's better to keep definitions in one place. There's even a discussion in the BP right now about making this a proper policy: no definitions on inflection entries. 02:05, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
 * You're right. I will try to follow your two recommendations. Thanks. Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 02:18, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

♂ und ♀ Zeichen
Hallo,

Ich habe bemerkt, dass du und  mit  und  ersetzt, z.B. in manicurist und pedicurist. Ich mag das besonders nicht, aber ich habe deine Bearbeitung vorerst so gelassen. Kannst du bitte an dieser Besprechung teilnehmen? Es sieht so aus, dass die meisten Teilnehmer und  vorziehen. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 03:38, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Volapük suffixes -ot and -öm
What do these suffixes do? I'm just curious about them. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 05:26, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
 * First off, sorry for the long delay in my answer to your question. There is a partial list of prefixes and suffixes for Volapük in the online article "AN INTRODUCTION TO VOLAPÜK" by Ed. Robertson, February 1994 (website: http://personal.southern.edu/~caviness/volapuk/Misc/VGramEN.txt). It gives an explanation of their meanings with a few example words. Prefixes: be- (givön "[to] give" -> begivön) "[to] present with" - (Makes what was the indirect object the direct object), fi- (to the end), hi- (male), ji- (female), ke- (together), läx- (ex-), le- (greatness), lu- (disparagement or step relationship), lü- (in-law), ne- (opposite), ru- (ancient). Suffixes: -am (verbal noun), -ag (abundance), -an (person associated), -at (amount of), -av (science), -äb (victim), -äd (generalisation of effect), -än (country), -ät (abstraction), -ed (particularisation), -ef (group of people, -el (maker of), -em (group of things), -et (consequential or concrete example), -iäl (inclination), -il (diminutive), -im, (philosophy), -od (softer or less serious example), -ot (harder or more serious example), -ov (possibility),  -öf (quality), -öm (equipment), -öp (place), -ül  (young of animals, endearment). Unfortunately, the short explanations for the meanings of some of these affixes is not always clear or unambiguous. I think that a person needs a lot of examples of their actual use in Volapük to get a feel for them. Here are some example words with the suffix -ot: birön "[to] brew" (bir "beer") -> birot "brew" "brewage (the result of brewing, what is brewed) (de: Gebräu); blünön "[to] deliver (bring)" (cf. blinön "[to] bring") -> blünot "delivery" (that which was delivered or brought, the thing delivered or brought, the result of the action of delivering); big "thickness, being thick" -> bigot "(measured) thickness", lun "longness, length" -> lunot "(spatial) length", lunet "(geographical) length"; blodön "[to] embroider", brod "(activity of) embroidering, embroidery", "brodalekan "art of embroidery", brodot "embroidered work, what has been embroidered, an embroidery"; bum "(action or activity of) building", bumön "to build" -> bumot "a building, what has been built" (de: erbauen (bauen) "[to] build, construct", Gebäude "a building"); buk "book", bük "(action of) printing", bükön "(to) print" -> bükot "printed matter, printed work, something printed (up)"; brek "breaking, fracturing", brekön "(to) break" -> brekot "a broken piece, fragment" -> brekotön "(to) fragment", brekod "a fracture"; mag "imaging, depiction, illustration, illustrating" -> magod "picture (an illustration)", magodön "(to) illustrate", magot "statue"; bob "(the fact of) being bowed" -> bobot " something bowed, bulged out, arched" Here are some other words with a similar morphological structure: fag, fagot; dün, dünot, dünotem; jen, jenot; bäld, bäldot; dib, dibot; glät, glätot; dalab, dalabot, smel, smelot, benosmelot; flök, flökot; gag, gagot; fin, finot, futofinot; fom, fomot; gret, gretot; fib, fibot; flum, flumot, balidflumot; bak, bakot, bakotem; geil, geilot; benosüp (süp), benosüpot; dabin, dabinot; fail, failot, bumädafailot; dil, dilot; köd, ködot, boadiködot; vob, vobot, goldavobot; fil, filot; defom, defomot; jaf, jafot; gav, gavot; boad, boadot; yüm, foyümot, poyümot; glid, glidot, kuv, kuvot, fitakuvot; fid, fidot; fabrik, fabrikot. There are also numerous nouns that have the -öm suffix (poyümot), for example: jel -> jelöm "umbrella or parasol", reinajelöm "umbrella", solajelöm "parasol"; datom -> datomöm "torture device, instrument of torture"; gad -> gadöm "garden tool, gardening tool"; xänöm "ladder" -> xänömatrid (rung [of a ladder]); brak -> braköm "flax break, flax breaker"; biliar (de: Billardspiel) -> biliaröm (de: Billard), blad -> bladöm "bellows"; frap -> frapöm "die, embossing punch"; fön "stove" + jelöm -> fönajelöm "firescreen"; frenön "(to) break", fren -> frenöm "break"; fonograf -> fonograföm "phonograph, record player, gramophone"; dialit -> dialitöm "dialyzer, dialyser"; häktograf -> häktograföm "hectograph, jellygraph, transfer tablet, gelatin duplicator", gin -> ginöm; fagiolog -> fagiologöm "binoculars, field glass; cep -> cepöm "(threshing) flail; huk, huko "by or with a hook", päskar "(action of) fishing", hukopäskar -> hukopäskaröm "fishing tackle, fishing gear" (de: Angel, Angelgerät); gifül -> gifülöm "watering can"; nok "knuckle" -> noköm "door knocker, yan + noköm -> yananoköm "doorknocker"; harmon -> harmonöm "harmonica, mouth organ"; flit -> flitöm "airplane, aeroplane, plane, aircraft, flying machine (de: Flugmaschine, Flugzeug); filid (fil) -> filidöm "(cigarette) lighter" (Feuerzeug); telefon "telephony" -> telefonöm "telephone, phone"; nün -> nünöm "computer"; dabük -> dabüköm "printer" (computer); bodifiläd -> bodifilädöm "(bread) toaster"; boidastutöm (stutöm) "balustrade"; stutömastul "armchair" (= bradastul ) (stutöm, stut "rest", "headrest", "armrest", stutön (len) "(to) lean (against/on)"); bradastutöm "armrest"(on chair; büg "can, tin", maif "being open", maifik "open" maifikön vt, maifükön vt, maifük  ->  bügimaifüköm "can-opener, tin-opener"; fal + jelöm -> falajelöm "parachute"; feafomöm "transformer" (electrical); fut + frenöm -> futafrenöm "foot brake", namafrenöm "handbrake"; kledön] "(to) sway, see-saw", [[kled "swaying, see-sawing" -> kledöm "seesaw"; koitön "(to) have intercourse, mate (with)", koit "coitus" -> koitöm "penis"; koldülüköm "cooler, a (car) radiator"; kurbidöm  "(electric) switch"; musig -> musigöm "(musical) instrument"; nit "staple" -> nitöm "stapler"; pendülön, pendül -> pendülöm "(children's) swing"; [pömön]] "(to) pump", [pöm]] > [pömöm]] "pump"; [sab]] "sand" -> saböm "sandtimer, hourglass, clepsammia"; skrub "screw" + tulöm -> skrubitulöm "screwdriver"; stofäd + knib -> stofädikniböm "clothes-peg"; störöm "poker" (for fire); televid "television" -> televidöm "television (set)"; tonodiregistaröm  "tape-recorder"; tonodisumodöm "record-player"; tovön "(to) lift", [tov]] -> tovöm "jack"; tridön "(to) step, tread on", trid "stair, step" ->  [tridöm]] "pedal" (for car); vabön "(to) drive", vab, vaböm -> "vehicle". So that is it for now. Volapük is indeed a fascinating language for those that examine it more closely in its structure. Have an excellent day! -- Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 10:11, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation. I've changed "harder" in to "more concrete" based on your explanation. Perhaps "example" would better be replaced by something like "instance" as well, but I left it there for now. Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 11:19, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Global account
Hi Hans-Friedrich! As a Steward I'm involved in the upcoming unification of all accounts organized by the Wikimedia Foundation (see m:Single User Login finalisation announcement). By looking at your account, I realized that you don't have a global account yet. In order to secure your name, I recommend you to create such account on your own by submitting your password on Special:MergeAccount and unifying your local accounts. If you have any problems with doing that or further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. Cheers, DerHexer (talk) 18:17, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

kunül, torül and Bajkiränapük
Greetings. kunül, torül and Bajkiränapük are currently in WT:RFV. Any help in finding attesting quotations for these terms to show these meet WT:ATTEST would be appreciated. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:05, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

German Low German "Tung"
I updated the entry for Low German Tung. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 01:16, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Schönen Tag noch! Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 07:39, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Now I updated Koh and Worm. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 08:00, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
 * And Kos. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 08:15, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
 * And Wust. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 08:46, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Now Kropp. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 09:44, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for all of your work. Have an excellent day! Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 17:27, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

A few reverts
The Yiddish is already linked to at the top of the page. We shouldn't be putting a different language in Hebrew's see also sections. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 15:50, 27 September 2016 (UTC)


 * If they belong anywhere, you could put them in a descendants section. But then you have the question of whether they came into Yiddish from Hebrew or Aramaic. And I don't know the answer to that for the Hebrew month names. --WikiTiki89 16:01, 27 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Please look around at existing entries before editing in a language you are not familiar with. I have deleted Jia1na2da4; Chinese editors have chosen not to have such entries. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 06:51, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Alternative Forms
Hey there. Last month a vote passed allowing alternative forms to be placed either as before (the way you place them) or as an L4 above the synonyms. I prefer the L4 variant and use that in Middle Low German because it offers a better overview, especially if you have long lists like in Low German. Maybe you want to give it a thought, for uniformity's sake. I'm no big Low German editor and won't argue if you do it the old way, though. Korn &#91;kʰũːɘ̃n&#93; (talk) 10:55, 8 November 2016 (UTC
 * Thanks for informing me about the recent vote concerning the option of where to place alternative forms. I will probably use the second L4 option that you mentioned. Thanks again and have a great day. Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 04:51, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Too Much Information
Please don't add translations for predictable gender-forms (completely unpredictable and common ones such as 🇨🇬 and 🇨🇬 are okay). We structure our entries so that people can find that information from the lemma of one of the forms (by convention, the masculine singular), so adding the other forms to the translations is just redundant clutter. Yes, such forms may exist, but then so does the ablative plural of the future passive participle in Latin verbs, and we don't add those, either. You've been told this before, but you apparently are choosing to forget. Please stop it. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:34, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Italian feminine plural adjectives
Hi there. We define these as the feminine plural of the masculine singular (lemma-form) adjective. SemperBlotto (talk) 15:36, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Adjectives have feminine singular, feminine plural and masculine plural forms. Nouns don't have feminine forms, only plural forms. Genders should only be indicated in the headword line for noun lemmas. Please fix your edits. —CodeCat 16:23, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Arvten
Um, we don't typically show gender for plural forms, do we ? Leasnam (talk) 04:35, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Past attempts of mine to do so were quickly reverted... Leasnam (talk) 04:36, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

That’s good to know. Thanks! Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 04:39, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

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Hi😃 You don't have to balance translations as it will soon be done automatically.--So9q (talk) 07:53, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Have an excellent day. Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 08:01, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

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Unattestable Volapük entries
You have created many Volapük entries that do not meet WT:ATTEST and have therefore been deleted. Please do not create more of these entries, but especially do not recreate the entries that were already deleted, like pijunül or hileon. If you continue to do this, you will be blocked. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 18:15, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Have you ever bought, read, or studied any books or other materials specifically dealing with the constructed language Volapük and understood the basic core rules for its word formation? Should the templates that automatically generate the numerous “unattested” inflected forms for Volapük nouns (including countless compound nouns), adjectives, and verbs also be deleted? Could you please give me the Volapük translations (tradutods) for these common German and English terms: Taube (dove or pigeon), Tauber, Tauberich, Täuber, Täuberich, Taubenmännchen (cock pigeon), Täubin, Taubenweibchen (hen pigeon), Taubenbaby, Taubenjunges, Taubenküken, ungefiederte Jungtaube (squab, baby pigeon or dove), Täubchen, Täublein, Tauberl (small pigeon or dove) ? Are you eagerly and enthusiastically trying to drive away unpaid volunteer contributors to Wictionary with your “you will be blocked” threats? As a unpaid volunteer sysop yourself, I wonder how many other (past, present, or future) Wiktionarians you have already managed to discourage from contributing to the Wiktionary project?. How many other people have you already driven away (never to be seen again) with this unwelcoming hostile attitude and approach? Have an excellent day! Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 02:52, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Please see (concerning the unattestable Volapük entries: pijunül and pijunüls): GOSPUL MA <LUCAS>, KAPIT:II: 21-24
 * 21. Ven del jölid, tü kel pösäprepüdom, ikömon, ägetom nemi: Yesus, kel pigivon ome fa silanan, büä idavedom in motavüm. 22. E ven klinikamadels onsik ipasetikons ma lonem ela <Moyses>, äblinons omi lü <Hierusalem>, ad dajonön omi Söle, 23. soäsä pelonos in lonem Söla: <Alutan manik kel maifükom motavümi, ponemom saludik lo Söl>, 24. ed i ad sakrifön utosi, kelos pebüdülom in lonem Söla: pär turturapijunas, u pijunüls tel. (The Volapük Diatek Nulik (New Testament, translated by Dr. Arie de Jong) )
 * The Gospel according to Luke, Chapter 2:21-24
 * 21. When eight days had passed for His brit-milah, He was named Yeshua, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb. 22. And when the days of their purification were fulfilled, according to the Torah of Moses, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present to ADONAI. 23. As it is written in the Torah of ADONAI, “Every firstborn male that opens the womb shall be called holy to ADONAI.” 24. So they offered a sacrifice according to what was said in the Torah of ADONAI: “a pair of turtle doves or two young pigeons [squabs].” [cf. Leviticus 12:8] (The Tree of Life Messianic Family Bible—The New Covenant, 2011) Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 07:24, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Please see also (concerning the “unattestable” Volapük entry: hileon (Löwenmännchen, male lion): Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 07:59, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Please see WT:ATTEST. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 18:01, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Do not place cognates outside of etymology sections, as you did here. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 01:28, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

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Template:gloss
Is there any particular reason you are replacing templates with simple parentheses, such as in this edit? &mdash; surjection &lang;<tt>??</tt>&rang; 11:33, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
 * To gloss or not to gloss, that is the question. The main reason I have replaced “gloss templates” with mere parentheses is for the sake of simplicity, length (the shorter the better), and convenience. I have noticed that editors use (wikitext:) one,, , , , (six) (result:) one, , , , , (six) different ways to indicate obvious glosses, or add no glosses at all. I prefer the simpler approach (it’s just my opinion). Have an excellent day! Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 19:34, 15 April 2021 (UTC); Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 21:33, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Pronunciation in Dachgeschoss
Hey! Do you have a source for the pronunciation in Switzerland/Liechtenstein? FWIW, it is pronounced in High Alemannic. &mdash; Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 16:00, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
 * See the German Wiktionary for alternate pronunciations of the words: “Dachgeschoss” [] Aussprache: IPA: [ˈdaxɡəˌʃɔs], schweizerisch auch: [ˈdaxɡəˌʃoːs]; “Erdgeschoss” [] IPA: [ˈeːɐ̯tɡəˌʃɔs], schweizerisch auch: [ˈeːɐ̯tɡəˌʃoːs]; “Kellergeschoss” [] IPA: [ˈkɛlɐɡəˌʃɔs], schweizerisch auch: [ˈkɛlɐɡəˌʃoːs]; “Geschoss” [] Schweizer und Liechtensteiner Schreibweise: IPA: [ɡəˈʃoːs]. Have an excellent day! Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 20:45, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I forgot to reply to this. Thanks for pointing me to that, have a nice day too! &mdash; Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 00:12, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * That’s Austrian German, as also thus labelled in the alternative form—the contradiction between pronunciation section and altspellings is mirrored on the German Wiktionary, so I guess “schweizerisch” was a malapropism for “österreichisch”. See also the pre-1900 spelling . Then also in Munich and Breslau thus pronounced. Fay Freak (talk) 01:55, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I would have said so too, sounds Bavarian to me. However, I dug a little deeper now, the edit on de.wikt where this pronunciation was introduced is this one with the edit summary "IPA erg. nach Nachfrage in der alemannischen WP", the Nachfrage was this one. I can't verify the reference but I have no reason to doubt the replying user. He also states that, according to a personal survey, both version seem to be in use, so I guess I'm just from a particular region / environment / .. that almost exclusively pronounces it as in Swiss High German. &mdash; Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 03:20, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * All the cases mentioned in the post should get the original long vowel mentioned in their entries, and for all we probably find older spellings with double vowel, ie, Dehnungs-h etc. to add as alternative forms. I don’t know though how to describe the regionality, when we e.g. label “originally and regionally in …”, as I don’t know the exact current stratifications of the lengths. Fay Freak (talk) 05:04, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Q vs S
I tried sending a ping in my edit, forgot to close my argument (lol). Please stop switching the q's to s's on Polish entries. S is for "sense", used to clarify synonyms and for which sense a synonym is for. We are not doing that with derived terms. It's small, but annoying, and introduced inconsistency in Polish pages. The rest of us use q, so in Polish edits, please do too. In other languages, I don't know what standard you use, but we use this. Vininn126 (talk) 21:51, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Understood. Have a good day. Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 21:56, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Some points regarding your recent edits
I would appreciate if you could take care of these. Thanks for your understanding. &mdash; Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 23:14, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) Don't add unattested terms as you did.
 * 2) Don't add SOPs as derived terms. Only add terms that merit an article. This is aimed at your addition of child murderer ; there are also tons of SOPs in . For more information, refer to WT:SOP.
 * 3) What is your reason for adding "female" as a qualifier to translations in an article that already clearly defines the term in question as female ?
 * 4) Note that binnen is now incorrectly categorized in Category:Low_German_class_3_strong_verbs after you've moved the entry from Low German to German Low German.
 * 5) s is not to be used to generally qualify items in a list, it even says so explicitly on its documentation page.  is therefore wrong; the article has no sense "UK" nor "US".
 * 6) What is your reason for replacing "Borrowed from" with "From" in edits such as ?
 * 7) Please use alt/alter in alternative forms sections instead of l.
 * 8) In edits such as, your change made it worse because you listed alternative forms (antiracism, anti-racism; nonracism, non-racism) just as regular list entries instead of next to each other on the same line.
 * 9) In the overwhelming majority of cases, definitions in non-English entries start with a lowercase character and don't end in a period. This is also codified in Style_guide (I know it is not binding, but still no reason to go against the de-facto consensus). This is aimed at edits such as.
 * 10) Please don't explain the German compound interfixes in every single compound that has such an interfix (as you did ). No need to duplicate the same information to thousands of articles.
 * 11) Don't replace gloss with plain parentheses. One reason is already given in the documentation of that template. Another reason is that gloss parentheses and plain parentheses are semantically different. Compare   with  . See the difference?
 * 12) What is your rationale for the majority of the substitutions done in ? I understand why someone would want to write gl or wp instead of the longer versions but it is beyond me why anybody would go to any random article and replace one for the other. I, for one, also prefer the explicit   versions in the etymology templates instead of  ; your substitutions make the code actively harder to read (for me at least).

Please stop adding unattested words
Please stop adding unattested words like "pijunül", which was deleted at RFV several years ago. Thanks. —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:27, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Pijunüls “young pigeons” (the nominative plural of pijunül “young pigeon” (i.e., a squab)) is used in the Volapük translation of the New Testament by Arie de Jong. Please read Luke 2:24 about “(two) young pigeons” = “pijunüls (tel)”:


 * 1) * GOSPUL MA <LUCAS>, KAPIT:II: 21-24
 * 21. Ven del jölid, tü kel pösäprepüdom, ikömon, ägetom nemi: Yesus, kel pigivon ome fa silanan, büä idavedom in motavüm. 22. E ven klinikamadels onsik ipasetikons ma lonem ela <Moyses>, äblinons omi lü <Hierusalem>, ad dajonön omi Söle, 23. soäsä pelonos in lonem Söla: <Alutan manik kel maifükom motavümi, ponemom saludik lo Söl>, 24. ed i ad sakrifön utosi, kelos pebüdülom in lonem Söla: pär turturapijunas, u pijunüls tel. (The Volapük Diatek Nulik (New Testament, translated by Dr. Arie de Jong) )
 * 1) * The Gospel according to Luke, Chapter 2:21-24
 * 21. When eight days had passed for His brit-milah, He was named Yeshua, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb. 22. And when the days of their purification were fulfilled, according to the Torah of Moses, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present to ADONAI. 23. As it is written in the Torah of ADONAI, “Every firstborn male that opens the womb shall be called holy to ADONAI.” 24. So they offered a sacrifice according to what was said in the Torah of ADONAI: “a pair of turtle doves or two young pigeons.” [cf. Leviticus 12:8] (The Tree of Life Messianic Family Bible—The New Covenant, 2011) Have an excellent day! Hans-Friedrich Tamke (talk) 23:58, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks. If you can find three independent durably archived sources, the entry can be recreated, per Criteria for inclusion. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:03, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Borrowed from -> From
If an etymology has a manually printed "Borrowed from", you should leave it and not change it to "From". Thanks. Vininn126 (talk) 16:39, 25 January 2024 (UTC)