User talk:JorisvS

Welcome
Welcome!

Hello, welcome to Wiktionary, and thank you for your contribution so far. Here are a few good links for newcomers:


 * How to edit a page is a concise list of technical guidelines to the wiki format we use here: how to, for example, make text boldfaced or create hyperlinks. Feel free to practice in the sandbox. If you would like a slower introduction we have a short tutorial.
 * Entry layout explained (ELE) is a detailed policy documenting how Wiktionary pages should be formatted. All entries should conform to this standard, the easiest way to do this is to copy exactly an existing page for a similar word.
 * Our Criteria for inclusion (CFI) define exactly which words Wiktionary is interested in including. There is also a list of things that Wiktionary is not for a higher level overview.
 * The FAQ aims to answer most of your remaining questions, and there are several help pages that you can browse for more information.
 * We have discussion rooms in which you can ask any question about Wiktionary or its entries, a glossary of our technical jargon, and some hints for dealing with the more common communication issues.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! If you have any questions, bring them to the Information desk, or ask me on my talk page. If you do so, please sign your posts with four tildes: ~ which automatically produces your username and the current date and time.

Again, welcome! Mglovesfun (talk) 10:45, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

accussì
You need to list the adverb and the conjunction in separate sections. It may get deleted (by one admin in particular) if you don't fix it. I can only fix it myself with guessing, as I don't know Neapolitan or Sicilian. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:45, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I tried (I hope it's good now). I must note that originally I left those unseparated for the very reason I didn't want to guess where to put the various translations, hoping for someone else to fix it. I don't actually know them myself either, but I have a dictionary. Thanks for pointing out such an admin, do you also have a name (to satisfy my curiosity, among other reasons I ask)? --JorisvS 15:46, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah otherwise people would have trouble knowing how to stop me in the street. But seriously, just read my user page. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:54, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha, that kind of name:P. But ehm, yeah: Ah!:P. Well, the way it went works for me. --JorisvS 16:02, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

checktrans
Ah I see what you're trying to do now! Check trans is for translation tables only. For meanings you're not sure of, use, such as for. Don't worry about minor details like this too much, though. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:57, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks for pointing that out to me. And, no, I wasn't trying to do anything. --JorisvS 16:02, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Audio
Audio files are added to pages using the template, not by putting the file in the page directly. Thanks. --Yair rand (talk) 22:03, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I missed that. --JorisvS 10:32, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Hi JorisvS. I was just wondering about your German pronunciations, are they really phonemic (//)? I don't know anything about German phonetics, but the use of syllabic marker on weglassen suggests that it is a phonetic transcription ([]), as they use on the German Wiktionary, e.g. de:weglassen.--Leo Laursen – (talk · contribs) 08:40, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think brackets are more appropriate (though in that case we should also indicate aspiration in the voiceless plosives, something the German Wiktionary somehow lacks). I started off with slashes (imitating some other pronunciation transcription somewhere), but then I noted that it's brackets that should be used for phonetic transcription and so continued using brackets. It wouldn't hurt checking (my and other) entries for this. --JorisvS 10:30, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * In any case they do indicate he pronunciation just fine, so it's no big deal. I have begun to us both // and [] on Danish entries, but I seem to be the only one doing that, so maybe I should choose just one or the other.--Leo Laursen – (talk · contribs) 13:17, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Esperanto ordinals
The Esperanto ordinal numbers do not have hyphens in them. Please make sure that you have your facts straight before editing these again. Razorflame 19:59, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I do have them straight! And yes, such things I check: I checked it in my 400-page Esperanto grammar, which clearly states the following on page 223 (when translated) :


 * When a numeral is written out and takes an ending or suffix then the parts are combined using hyphens:
 * dek-due (12-e), twelfth
 * cent-okdekono (180-ono), 1/180
 * kvardek-kvina (45-a), forty-fifth
 * dek-okjara (18-jara), eighteen-year old
 * If the compound numeral is larger than one thousand hyphens are not necessary per se:
 * mil naŭcent naŭdek sepa, 1997th
 * --JorisvS 21:20, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your explanation. I have reversed my changes.  Thanks again for the help, Razorfl<b style="color:#003">am</b><b style="color:#000">e</b> 21:28, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Glad to be able to help;).--JorisvS 21:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

using MglovesfunBot. I wouldn't recommend removing them all by hand (over 100). Mglovesfun (talk) 18:13, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, oh good. I wasn't doing it as a response to that though. Thanks for letting me know I don't have to do anything with it when I see the same info repeated. --JorisvS 18:44, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Accent
Is it actually significant in written texts? I thought it was only used to mark the stress in a similar way to Russian. -- Prince Kassad 23:41, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You're talking about Archi? Well, I just follow the dictionary, which lists them separately. --JorisvS 23:46, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Esperanto proper noun forms
The problem seems to be the interaction between and WT:ACCEL. I can't find where the metadata for this is stored to change it! It should be on Conrad.Irwin subpage, or at least transcluded there in some way, but I can't find it! Mglovesfun (talk) 18:21, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * A shame, if you can't I certainly cannot:(. It might have been okay a while back; there was no fix at Latvujon, though he might have fixed this by hand at the time of creation, as I have done quite the number of times. --JorisvS 18:26, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Hindi and Urdu
Hi,

Please don't add nested translations for Hindi and Urdu under Hindi-Urdu. Use hi and and ur language codes and provide translations separately. --Anatoli 00:48, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree for technical reasons - but in terms of previous discussion, see Template talk:ur-noun. Mglovesfun (talk) 01:12, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Any changes should be brought to the vote and/or discussed in Beer parlour before starting messing existing translations or entries. Everyone knows about the similarities and Hindi and Urdu being sister languages but we have to follow some procedures or accept the status quo. --Anatoli 02:36, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * They are the same language, the same way Croatian, Serbian etc. are. Maybe some discussion to get the community to realize this wouldn't be a bad thing. --JorisvS 16:04, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

derë
Hi, first I would like to ask if you can add language in your user page, I noticed that you replaced IPA, I'm from Makedonia, and I'm sure we use [deɾ·ə], you replaced by [dɛr·ə] who mean pig derr, are you insulting my people ? Gmazdên 12:21, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not talking about anyone's dialect, but about the Standard. I know there are significant differences between the various Albanian varieties, does your native variety happen to be Gheg? I changed the phonetic brackets to phonemic slashes: from [der] to /dɛɾə/ (I didn't note then it also said [r], an alveolar trill, which is, I know, written <rr>, which someone else corrected). <e> is phonemically indicated /ɛ/ in Standard (Tosk) Albanian, but there is no contrast with [e], so (phonetic) [ɛ] and [e] are both (phonemic) /ɛ/.
 * I don't care about the Tosk dialect. Since a very small part of albanian speaker use this falsificated dialect, that Kosovo, Macedonian and Northern Shqip rejected & don't like. Pig [dɛr] & Door [deɾ], have nothing common. Are you albanian ? Gmazdên 13:56, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but since 'Albanian' will be interpreted as referring to the Standard (thus Tosk), mixing Gheg messes things up IMO (given the differences). Given the big differences between the varieties of Albanian, I will not object to a separate Gheg Albanian entry (like at zôjë), even when alongside a (Standard) Albanian entry (quite opposite to Serbo-Croatian, see my contributions). However, I don't know about other editors, they might oppose/undo such an addition, so this might require a fair amount of discussion. --JorisvS 14:09, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Do you speak Shqip ? Are you Albanian or Greek ? Still you writed [dɛrə] pig (derr, I'm not sure you good enough in albanian phônology to correct my mother tongue. She is teacher and I'm sure of Gheg pronunciation, so your Greek Toskian dialect, it's not interesting me at all since is a falsificated dialect invented and imposed in 1947 by a dictator... You made error with [r] so to for [ɛ]... It's me who writed to Stephen to correct you RR [r] with R [ɾ], but he keeped the [ɛ] still is [e] epsilon... Also please add your speaked language in profile. Gmazdên 14:21, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * As I said above. Please try to read carefully what I say (maybe look up words here or there, I notice your English isn't perfect, so you might miss some things of what I'm saying). The thing with [r] was just a human error (and I'm glad someone else did notice and correct it). I'm not stopping you to add Gheg at derë or anywhere else, but I am saying we shouldn't mix things up. Also, realize I'm not correcting you. In fact, I would encourage speakers of Gheg to use their language instead of slowly assimilating to Tosk. --JorisvS 14:38, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

You don't respond my question : are you Shqiptar/Albanian ? Also about language add you knowledge (babel) in user page, please. I'm level 3 English not 5 or 4 but 3... Edit only language that you know at level 4 or 5... Still stop reverse, it's [e] and not [ɛ] pig & door aren't related. Make the difference between those two term. Gmazdên 14:45, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I haven't because it is totally irrelevant. Only what I've said above is relevant (at least so far). First read carefully what I've written above, then ask for clarification if you don't understand something I've said. After that we can continue this discussion, I hate repeating myself. And if I may remark, I've seen your posts here and on Stephen G. Brown's talk page, from which I suspect en-3 is on the high side for you, no offense. --JorisvS 14:56, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * You think that it's irrelevant to add language you speak and write while editing a world dictionary ??? It's really astonishing... Please, don't insult my people. Good bye. Gmazdên 15:07, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * To this discussion, yes. I wonder, how have I "insulted your people"?? I really don't see how I can have. --JorisvS 15:14, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Just an advice edit language that you personally speak at level 4 of 5. That's all, if you don't understand difference between pig [dɛr·ə] & door [dɛr·ə] it's your problem, don't impose to all world, your controversial point of view. Still, I'm sure it's [deɾ·ə]. Good bye. Gmazdên 15:50, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I edit with sense, if I'm not certain of something, I don't do it. This does not mean I won't make mistakes, I'm human just like everyone else, so I'm bound to make mistakes here and there. Sometimes I notice them myself and fix them, sometimes I don't and someone else comes by. You are the one who doesn't seem to be getting my point: Gheg ≠ Tosk. --JorisvS 16:08, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Errare humanum est, I know, but it's seems that you don't understand what I say, are you albanian ? What's your Albanian Level ? Gmazdên 16:22, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * In response to that I've said that it doesn't matter IMO. In the beginning I've said why I changed the (phoneTic) [e] to phoneMic /ɛ/, because that's kind of the convention for Tosk, at least the one I've seen. (Do you know what the difference between a phonetic and a phonemic transcription is?) I realize Gheg makes a phonemic distinction between /e/ and /ɛ/ (well, at least now I do), but as I edited it with Tosk in mind that isn't really very important (well, maybe to you it is; you edit them with only your native Gheg in mind? Then this is what I mean when I say "we shouldn't mix these up"). --JorisvS 16:41, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Serbian...
Please, don't remove Serbian, Croatian, etc. sections, neither here or on fr.wiktionary, even if you consider that, from a purely linguistic point of view, they are the same language. But you may add Serbo-Croatian sections. Lmaltier 14:14, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * No, that would just create forks. They are standard languages of one language, which English calls Serbo-Croatian, like English consists of several standards (British, American, etc.). So, just as we don't add separate American English and British English entries, we don't add separate Serbian etc. entries. If a word is limited to just one or more of the standards or dialects we can indicate this the same way we indicate this in the case of English. --JorisvS 14:26, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't want to reopen the discussion, but there has been a discussion, and no consensus, this is a polemical subject. English is a different case, because nobody considers that it is composed of two languages, while there are different wiktionaries and ISO codes for Serbian, Croatian, etc. Nobody requires you to create Croatian sections, etc. if you don't want to, and nobody requires you to create forks, but, please, don't remove them. Lmaltier 15:01, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * My request also applies to Hindi and Urdu, of course, but it's not a problem: you cannot remove sections, as they use different scripts. Lmaltier 15:02, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * IMO there is a consensus on Wiktionary (that is, the English one) to unite these as Serbo-Croatian. By consensus, I mean that's what a large majority of editors do, as oppose to any written policy, as there is no such policy. If you are referring to the 2010 vote (or was it 2009?) that ended in a no consensus mainly because of the input of non-Wiktionary editors. Furthermore, I think it had a 'majority', just not a big enough majority to pass. The French Wiktionary (or any other apart from this one) would be entirely another matter. Oh and what is a 'fork'? Mglovesfun (talk) 15:05, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * A fork is Wikipedia jargon, I guess. There it refers to having more than one article on the same subject, which usually occurs to satisfy some POV. The equivalent here would be two or more entries for the same language (e.g. having ==American English== and ==British English==, or, more subtly, ==Croatian== and ==Serbian==) or the same thing in the translation tables. --JorisvS 15:12, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * There is a polemic, this is very obvious, not only on Wiktionary, and not only because of non-Wiktionary editors. This is a good enough reason not to remove existing sections. Lmaltier 15:34, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * You'd rather use a cluttered page such as the one that existed at odgovor, see this? --JorisvS 15:41, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Babel
Would you add to your user page? It is good to know what languages contributors speak. --Dan Polansky 09:09, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I can see your perspective. However, for the moment I'm still not comfortable with the categories, mostly the higher ones. I'm thinking of a way to put things into my userpage in a better perspective (and more useful here anyway), but that'll need some more time. --JorisvS 12:54, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
 * One thing you could do is state your mother tongue using Babel, if you are uncomfortable with the Babel levels of proficiency. I am not perfectly sure what the levels mean either, so I had to estimate the levels when ranking myself. --Dan Polansky 13:48, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

ie eg
Normally I say "what the hell - and move on", but the use of full points in abbreviations is a matter of style with ie and eg they serve no useful purpose. ref Guardian styleguide and Time styleguide - one respected newspaper may smack of "passing fashion" two adds authority? —Saltmarshtalk-συζήτηση 05:09, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, interesting! I wonder what their motivation for doing so is. What about all the other respectable newspapers? Any that disapprove of using "eg"/"ie"? --JorisvS 19:10, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Slovenian attention
Can I ask why you're marking these seemingly random words with attention tags? — <font face="Lucida console">[&#32;R·I·C&#32;] Laurent — 01:32, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure. The entries I tagged are all very basic, bare bone, and could be much improved/expanded. Accent marks are missing; declension/conjugation tables are also missing. (And other things, like pronunciation, could be added, but that is not why I have tagged them.) And, of course, I have just tagged the ones that I have come across. --JorisvS 17:24, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I've just made it Category:Tbot entries (Slovene) categorizes in Category:Slovene terms needing attention. So you won't need to tag Tbot entries individually any more. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:42, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, yes, that obviously comes in handy. --JorisvS 17:45, 29 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Pretty much 90% of what we have in Slovenian is bones. If you're going to tag all that for attention, have fun lol. — <font face="Lucida console">[&#32;R·I·C&#32;] Laurent — 20:03, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hehe, yeah could be. Though I seriously doubt I'll make it all the way:P. --JorisvS 20:34, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Re: Go troll somewhere else with your nationalist motivations
Re: your quote:

"Go troll somewhere else with your nationalist motivations"

Please be WT:CIVIL. -- Bugoslav 17:26, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Please, tell me your motivations, then. Do I miss something? --JorisvS 17:33, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not obliged to confess (2) anything to you. Are you my priest? Face-smile.svg -- Bugoslav 17:37, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Then don't blame me for assuming the only motivation I can think of. --JorisvS 17:40, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You do not have the right to assume the worst, but to assume good faith. -- Bugoslav 17:42, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not assuming the worst, I'm assuming the only thing I can think of. Can you provide me with another reason, then? --JorisvS 17:45, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not here to discuss my "reasons", and you should stop assuming bad faith. Please read the links that I have provided to you. Thanks. -- Bugoslav 17:47, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Live with it. Alternatively you could change it by becoming more cooperative. --JorisvS 17:52, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You could respect libertarianism more. -- Bugoslav 17:54, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * In which case you must similarly respect it when I revert youFace-wink.svg. --JorisvS 18:01, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Re: Reverting
I do not need to respect the edit when you revert. Not if you deny valid policies like WT:CFI. -- Bugoslav 18:03, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Referring to the "all languages" part? Serbian is not an independent language. It is a standardized variety of what is called Serbo-Croatian (by lack of a non-compound), just like Am.English and Br.English are standardized varieties of English. If you go to Croatia and talk "Serbian", they may notice but will understand you nonetheless. This means that by the definition of the English word "language" that your "Serbian" isn't a separate language from "Croatian". --JorisvS 18:13, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Dos cositas
Watch out for Esperanto hyphenation, it's usually pretty specific. A consonant cluster can't begin a syllable that follows one that ends in a consonant vowel (lol consonant). So on nekrologo, it has to be nek-ro rather than ne-kro.

Also, is there anything specific you'd like to see at vino or should I just add whatever? :D — <font face="Lucida console"> [Ric Laurent] — 15:16, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, my grammar book is usually pretty detailed, but it doesn't state such a rule about consonant clusters (don't you mean "ends in a vowel"?), in either direction it does appear (I was under the impression that it said that, at least within morphemes, consonants belong to the following syllable wherever this results in a permitted consonant cluster). On the other hand it does say that, officially, there are no rules. Could you give me your source?
 * Regarding Slovene: Whatever things you can find that will improve the entry, of course! Though I usually place the tag when it lacks a tone diacritic. --JorisvS 16:56, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It was somewhere in the pronunciation/orthography rules on one of the Esperanto-related articles on wikipedia. Honestly, knowing the hyphenation of Esperanto words doesn't make any difference, so I never add them myself.
 * I added some random stuff to vino, so it should be better now. :) — <font face="Lucida console"> [Ric Laurent] — 17:06, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * True, so me neither.
 * The Slovene entry is definitely much, much better. (The good) Serbo-Croatian entries follow a standardized format; the same pieces of information could be useful for Slovene entries. The vino entry could be improved further by adding tones to the declension (if some are different from that of the lemma form) and derived terms, I'd say. --JorisvS 18:36, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I dunno shit about how Slovene's tonal system works, but Ivan seems to be really good at finding out that kind of stuff, so it might be worth asking him about it. — <font face="Lucida console"> [Ric Laurent] — 21:49, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Beer_parlour
Hi,

I noticed your edit on Hindustani. You might be interested in this discussion. --Anatoli 23:05, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --JorisvS 19:36, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Czech entries with audio links
Adding entries to Category:Czech entries with audio links manually as in seems a poor idea. If entries should be added to that category, this should be the job of the template. Furthermore, there is no Category:English entries with audio links and Category:Spanish entries with audio links. You seem to have created Category:Czech entries with audio links just recently, on 5 October 2011‎. I ask that you stop adding Czech entries manually to that category and discuss your activity in Beer parlour before you continue. I tend to think the category should not be there at all. --Dan Polansky 08:55, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

I have now noticed that you have also created Category:Polish entries with audio links. --Dan Polansky 09:00, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Inspired by Category:Mandarin entries with audio links. I think such categories are very useful. Someone looking for pronunciation of words in a language could then easily find word with audio, instead of having to look hard for ones. I agree it would be best if it happens via the audio template. --JorisvS 09:52, 6 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I have now created Requests_for_deletion/Others. Eventually, all entries are going to have links to audio files. I can't see why a user would be looking for a list of entries with audio links other than for maintenance reasons. But for maintenance reasons, a list of all such entries can be extracted using AWB from a dump. --Dan Polansky 09:58, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I can give an example: me. When learning bits and pieces of a language, it helps me much (in remembering and learning to pronounce the word fluently to satisfaction) when I can hear a word spoken aloud as opposed to just written. I can tell you that in the past I tried searching for them, but failed, and such a category would have helped me a lot. And, if I have, I'll be hardly the only one. As for the "eventually", while that may be so, we're a long way from getting there and in the meantime such a category is the only way for people who are searching to hear word out loud. --JorisvS 10:15, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Babel
Would you add to your user page? I'd appreciate it. --Dan Polansky 08:57, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Try this, linked to from my user page. --JorisvS 09:54, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Is there a reason why you don't have this info on your user page, just like most Wiktionary editors? --Dan Polansky 10:00, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

stress marking
Could you look back over your recent edits and make sure stress is marked on the penultimate syllable of Esperanto words? I've fixed a few, derivations of feliĉa. — <font face="Lucida console"> [Ric Laurent] — 22:02, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for spotting! I see I should have been more careful pasting things. I think you spotted them all, I can't find any others. --JorisvS 08:52, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

x
Spearheading the dialects-as-L2s campaign? — <font face="Lucida console"> [Ric Laurent] — 17:02, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * See WT:BP. --Yair rand 17:06, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * All I see is a bunch of people who don't speak Albanian deciding how we should treat Albanian. — <font face="Lucida console"> [Ric Laurent] — 18:18, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Kuanua
Do you have a Kuanua reference book? I would be excited to help with that, because I have been learning Tok Pisin, which is in large part derived from Kuanua. Thanks --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 17:24, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately I don't. I got what I added from Tolai language. The template Template:ksd-decl-personal pronouns I made by combining the Wikipedia table with nl:Sjabloon:ksd-pers. There are two forms, i and di in the template that are completely uncited and I couldn't confirm and hence did not add as glosses. Maybe you could give this a try? --JorisvS (talk) 09:36, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's a real pity. If I find anything, I'll tell you. Thanks --Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 15:52, 30 July 2012 (UTC)