User talk:Montrealais

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Again, welcome! -- Visviva 03:31, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

minor issues
Hi, thanks for your recent edits. A coupla minor issues with your recent edits that need cleaning up after, so if you could do them right in future edits it'd help: Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask me at my talkpage or respond here. Thanks! &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 20:42, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Pronunciation goes in the "Pronunciation" section. (See .)
 * Example sentences go on the line under the definition, not the same line.(See again.)
 * Synonyms go in the "Synonyms" section. (See .)

winnowing fan
I don't think that a winnowing basket is the same as a winnowing fan, but I base that solely on the passage in the Odyssey which hinges on people mistaking am oar for winnowing fan. I have yet to find a good image for such a winnowing fan, but I have confined my searches to Commons. DCDuring (talk) 22:57, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * You may find this blog post interesting. DCDuring (talk) 23:00, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I also draw your attention to this Google Images page which includes many common or garden variety electric fans in use in winnowing. DCDuring (talk) 23:04, 29 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The blog post is consistent with my understanding of a winnowing fan: a specially shaped type of winnowing basket (i.e. the fan holds grain, rather than blowing air onto the grain which is held in something else). I am dubious that an electric fan used for blowing air onto grain being winnowed is a "winnowing fan," but if it is, it would be a definition 2. - Montrealais (talk) 04:28, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Did you bother to click through to the pages from which the machine fan images are taken? Such fans are apparently widely made and sold in India?
 * I don't think that winnowing fan is a type of winnowing basket. It seems obvious that there are two broad classes of devices for winnowing: One (basket) uses ambient wind to separate grain from chaff by tossing a mass of mixed grain and chaff into the wind (tossing grain into wind). The other (fan) creates an airflow to perform the separation (fanning air onto grain). The Homeric winnowing fan could only be of the second sort. I could imagine both being used simultaneously. DCDuring (talk) 16:52, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The understanding I had from the blog post and from other sources is what I wrote: a winnowing fan is a refinement of the winnowing basket, in which it is specially shaped to disperse the chaff more quickly than a simpler shape. As I understand it, this was the original sense of "fan" (i.e. the device for winnowing preceded the device for blowing air onto something else). The photos and paintings depicting the use of a traditional winnowing fan show it being used by one person and holding grain in it (as does the quotation from the Prolegomena to the Study of Greek Religion in the article), not being waved around empty to blow air onto grain that a second person is handling. I grant that when mechanical fans are used to blow air onto grain being winnowed, it could be natural to call that a "winnowing fan" even though the role of the object is different. As I say, that could be a definition 2. - Montrealais (talk) 18:17, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Whether winnowing fan and winnowing basket are synonyms is an empirical question of current usage. DCDuring (talk) 16:46, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
 * This page from a book on Greek mythology is helpful IMHO. DCDuring (talk) 16:54, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Meanings of small-l liberal and small-c conservative
Hello, I saw that you recently changed the definitions of and  to say that one may be a member of their country's respective political party and still be a  or. This is somewhat confusing to me as it seems to make the terms nearly, if not completely, synonymous and redundant with and, respectively. Am I understanding your changes correctly? If so, can you provide examples of or  being used to describe someone who is a member of their country's respective political party? Any clarification is appreciated, thanks and take care. &mdash;The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 16:11, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

(be) going to
I really liked what you did in the usage notes in that entry. And that's despite the fact that such a table is not at all part of our normal practice in usage notes. Maybe it should be. We would usually have something like it in an Appendix, where it would be seen by very few. In any event I do not want to change it.

You've noticed things about the expression that never came into my consciousness but which I recognize as correct. Have you done anything similar with other English entries? DCDuring (talk) 17:05, 14 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your kind words! I'm very pleased you find the content and presentation helpful. I don't think I've done something with this formatting elsewhere, but I like explaining the nuances between near-synonyms, e.g. decline.
 * Funny story: I got to thinking about the difference in sense between "will" and "be going to" because of the Jonathan Coulton song "Re: Your Brains," a parody of corporate-speak in the context of a zombie invasion, which includes the lyrics Maybe we should compromise: If you open up the doors, we'll all come inside and eat your brains. I was thinking about why the "will" there is crucial to the humour: because it frames "come inside and eat your brains" as an offer (or maybe the zombie got distracted while negotiating and blurted out his actual intent); "going to" wouldn't have been funny the same way, because it would have framed the brain-eating more normally as a threat or prediction. Realizing why this tiny nuance of "we'll" (and the implied contrast with the expected "going to") made it so much funnier was such a pleasure that it spurred me on to discuss the difference in more detail. I also enjoy how the usage of "gonna" (i.e. how nobody ever says "I'm gonna New York") demonstrates that "going to" is already grammaticalizing. - Montrealais (talk) 19:43, 14 September 2023 (UTC)