User talk:Mzajac/2009

French Canadian
Sorry to have mislead you about fre/fra. Better luck with Afrikaans, anyway. I'll take a look at you template. DCDuring TALK 11:32, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * So, you display "canadian french" but use "fr" within etyl and term? Do you put inside  or italbrac so that it could be found? I haven't been following such discussions, but it seems to me we would want to make it easy to find all and only such entries by some means such as a distinct category or better template-enclosed text next to the definition or ed word in an etymology. The issue may have been addressed already (somehwere???). If you have figured it all out, I'd love to know about it. DCDuring TALK 11:43, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I had forgotten about this conversation. Today I added batteau, almost certainly of French Canadian derivation. I added to that headword using "fre" and created . I was then surprised to find that the category already existed. I don't know whether it matters that we have two etyl routes to the same objective, but I thought you should know. Let me know if you want to amend anything. Neither "fr-CA" nor "fre" yet have much use so we could standardize on one with minimal effort now. "fre" has the advantage of conforming to the main standard, but you may be aware of other considerations. DCDuring TALK 14:43, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

New buttons
Welcome to sysophood. There is probably help somewhere - I'm sure you can find it. SemperBlotto 06:58, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I'm sure I can muddle through it.  Regards. —Michael Z. 2008-08-26 14:57 z 

Please add yourself to the table at WT:A with the information listed. Thanks! Robert Ullmann 18:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Request
Would you be able to create an entry for Ukrainian слухати (slúxaty)? We don't seem to have an entry for it. --EncycloPetey 16:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Done. —Michael Z. 2008-08-26 17:34 z 

Garage pronunciation
When you added the Canadian pronunciation to garage, did you really mean the final vowel in the first two to be, which is the sound in the British pronunciation of stop: for example? I'm not familiar with Canadian pronunciation but I would have thought  (as in the word  and the US pronunciation of ) would be more likely? Thryduulf 23:28, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Without actually hearing an audio pronunciation of the Canadian pronunciation I can't actually say what the phoneme used is, but [ɒ] seemed a little unlikely. However I should qualify that by pointing out that I'm British and can't tell the difference between US and Canadian accents. Soliciting the opinion of any other Canadians here is the only other thing I can think of. Thryduulf 01:38, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

etyl again
Please be more careful with the template. For example, the change put reconnoiter into Category:English derivations (which should always be empty, save subcats). Only languages which supply an etymon should receive the template. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:12, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Canuck
Can you cite your source for the etymology of Canuck? I'd like to add two more: from etymonline, and the CanOD which just says “apparently from Canada.” —Michael Z. 2008-09-10 14:49 z 


 * Just napped them from the wiki page. Probably want to update both if you could. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 23:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

PVT
Please note:. All the forms are all abbreviations of the same word, so they are not synonyms but the same word in different forms. There is no "en-abbreviation" template; the template is used in the POS header directly (and can accept parameters for various languages). --EncycloPetey 19:19, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. —Michael Z. 2008-10-06 19:22 z 

User:Hjtouy
I've reblocked him indef - checkuser shows he is the same userpage vandal we've been dealing with all week. -- Versa geek  06:02, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. —Michael Z. 2008-11-19 06:03 z 
 * As a victim, I appreciate you both for your diligence and speed. -- IrishDragon 06:24, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * My pleasure. I was Johnny-on-the-spot just because I happened to load a page when my talk page was vandalized. —Michael Z. 2008-11-19 06:40 z 

Template:IPAchar
Are you sure that Template:IPAchar isn't a script template? —Ruakh TALK 18:18, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Is a good question. It was originally intended for IPA transcriptions following the IPA template (which only took one parameter), but is now more often used with terms in languages written only in IPA i.e. languages with no written form, transcribed in IPA by researchers. That would make it more a script template. You would think IPA would have a 15924 code, but apparently not. Robert Ullmann 18:25, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: The template is also used when an IPA transcription appears within text outside of a Pronunciation section, such as on talk pages, and occasionally it is used within Usage notes sections. --EncycloPetey 18:28, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Are there languages written only as IPA transcriptions, and not by some more normal “written” method?


 * Technically, “the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) is an extension of the Latin alphabet, enabling it to represent the phonetics of all languages” (The Unicode Standard 5.0, p 225). The IANA registry assigns it a variant tag fonipa.  I am guessing it would be used, e.g., en-fonipa for English in IPA, or uk-Latn-fonipa, for Ukrainian in IPA (as opposed to uk-Latn, a historical Latin alphabet for Ukrainian). Details about language tags are in RFC 4646.


 * I separated IPA and others because they aren't native or adopted scripts for written languages, but a transcription method for pronunciation of speech, accents, and speech impediments.  In the dictionary, they aren't so much a subject of study as a tool for use (if you know what I mean, but let's not get into that discussion).  For convenience, I sorted them out into category:Pronunciation templates and category:Transliteration templates (or perhaps these two belong together in category:Transcription templates). —Michael Z. 2008-11-21 22:06 z 

tank as a name
I only moved it, because it seemed to be in the wrong place (not actually a definition); I didn't verify the accuracy. Perhaps it should go. Equinox 18:11, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

inherit
I think this should be looked at. You've been adding :inherit to the CSS (with the MSIE6 hide trick), but that is a change: the script templates have been forcing the font lists on all browsers. If :inherit is in the CSS, then when the fonts are removed from the templates (the outer span), the other browsers will go back to their defaults (modulo user config, fonts loaded, etc). I don't think that's wanted: we have been forcing font lists on all browsers for a reason. And now, of course, users will be able to over-ride them, but there isn't/won't be any (simple) way for users to over-ride the :inherit and use the font lists. (!)

I think what I am saying is that in all cases where we have moved the lists from templates to CSS, we should not add :inherit. That way we get the status quo ante. Robert Ullmann 09:33, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'll go through them and restore the behaviour shortly. —Michael Z. 2008-11-26 16:07 z 


 * Also answered question on my talk page; I think there is a workable hack, given that it is temporary. Robert Ullmann 08:23, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

MSIE-specific CSS.
Hi Mzajac,

Thanks for your recent efforts to standardize and clean up the script templates. But as part of this, you've been "fixing" a number of templates to impose fonts only for MSIE, which (as you've since seen) causes problems sometimes. I'm guessing that this also caused problems in various cases that you still don't know about, because there's no one who both (1) has noticed and (2) knows where to bring it up.

Was there some discussion leading up to this? I'm somewhat annoyed, firstly because you don't seem to have asked about it in the Grease pit discussions, and secondly because even so, I anticipated that you might want to do it, and explicitly advised against it (in the "Survey of script templates" section — my first comment, sixth bullet-point). Obviously, my advising against something doesn't make it forbidden, but I'd like to think it should have at least prompted you to ask for a second opinion before altering functionality for many of our non-MSIE-using users.

I stand ready to retract my annoyance if it turns out there was discussion that I simply didn't notice. ;-)

Thanks again, —Ruakh TALK 14:59, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * (butting in) I think it just got lost by mistake. In almost all applications (the wikt being a spectacular exception), it is entirely sufficient to leave the fonts to the browser, only doing all this horrid hackery for MSIE, with the typical brokenness of all things MS. (see his comments a bit further down GP) That combined with the MSIE-hidden :inherit for most of the things already in the CSS caused an understandable error. Just IMNSHO. (note this is the same issue as the previous section "inherit") Robert Ullmann 15:15, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry for the trouble and the extra work I've caused. My plan was to rearrange things without changing any of the output at this point, but even though I had read Ruakh's warning, that got lost in my shuffle.  I was also frustrated a bit by the lack of documentation for any of these templates, and assumed that some which were not represented in the style sheet may have had inline fonts because the MSIE hack wasn't possible to apply in a template, or because their author only used MSIE.  That was a bad assumption.


 * I was also a bit distracted from the target by the unexpected occurrence of a font-size inheritance problem which was brought to my attention when I'd already proceeded to the next step. In the future I will do more testing to prevent a reoccurrence.


 * I've already restored a number of the non-MSIE font specs because of direct complaints (Cyrillic, Devanagari and all the Arabic templates), and I'll restore the rest shortly.


 * Next, I'll try to document some of what I've learned. Thanks for your patience and understanding, all. —Michael Z. 2008-11-27 16:26 z 


 * Makes sense. Thanks for taking care of it. :-)  —Ruakh TALK 17:27, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, the style sheet should now be in synch with the templates, as they were four days ago. I posted details at the bottom of Grease pit. —Michael Z. 2008-11-27 18:08 z 

sc- classes
Um, why? Why "sc-Goth" when we want and need "Goth" ? Robert Ullmann 22:59, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Template:Deva
I think that there's an extra span end bracket here. Take a look at πατήρ. It looks fine as a regular entry, but if you open the edit window and do a show preview, the last half of the etymology is too big (presumably the changes are still in the job queue). I imagine that simply removing the second end span should fix it, but I thought I'd give it to you, as your understanding of these script templates vastly outstrips my own. Many thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 21:00, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

nationality
Your edits do not follow WT:ELE conventions. Individual translations do not receive separate sections by sense. --EncycloPetey 06:38, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I hadn't realized there was a secondary edit. Reverting takes the page back to the last version not by that contributor, and by the time I realized my mistake and went to correct it, you had made another edit.  However, I'll note that the concept of sub-numbered definitions is still controversial.  WT:ELE does not make provision for them. --EncycloPetey 06:44, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Restoring it at this point would give me credit for the edit. As I said, you made another edit after I realized my error, so I couldn't undo my change. --EncycloPetey 06:50, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, as you wish, but you'll lose the edit you made afterwards. Some people get upset, some people insist, and I get yelled at either way. --EncycloPetey 07:09, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have found that when I make the format corrections, I have to make them over and over, because the same mistakes pop up again and again from the same user. When I allow  the user to correct their own mistakes (as I tried to do in this case), the user usually learns something useful and produces better product in future.  There is no one magical method for operating on Wiktionary that will guarantee the best results. --EncycloPetey 20:05, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I removed it because you repeatedly insisted that I revert instead of making even a slight effort yourself. you knew that reverting would do this because I told you repeatedly that it would.  Please go away. --EncycloPetey 20:16, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have put the entry back the way it was before any of this started. Do not ask me to "revert" again.  Figure it out for yourself. --EncycloPetey 20:20, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

toque
Umm... you put in four etymology section headers, but only gave two etymologies. I've moved the etymology content under the correct headers. --EncycloPetey 01:22, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The alternative spellings are fine, as far as I'm concerned. I don't whether you've seen the recent discussion (in the BP, I think), where Alternative spellings/forms are under discussion.  As I pointed out there, there aren't any policies about this section.  The example in the ELE places it ahead of the Etymology section, and that's the norm for most people, but there are situations like toque where I would put them in exactly the place that you did.  However, the ELE makes no mention at all of this section; it simply appears without explanation in the example.  Even Alternative spellings doesn't mention the section! --EncycloPetey 01:29, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

coureur des bois
Chambers only has coureur de bois, too, so it appears we should have that. Wikipedia's article is Coureur des bois, though, and so do a lot of sources on Google Books. Perhaps it's a legitimate alternate form? Equinox 11:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Going by (193),  (329),  (406), and  (296), both forms are common in both languages, but the "de" form is preferred in English and the "des" form is preferred in French. (Those numbers are last-page figures, found by adding &amp;start=900 to the search URL.) —Ruakh TALK 12:20, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks, folks. I will adjust the entry accordingly.


 * Is the number 900 magic, or will any large number find the accurate count? —Michael Z. 2009-01-27 15:22 z 


 * Any number that's large enough to bring you to the last page, but small enough that you don't hit the limit on the requested number of results (which I think is 1000). Even then, b.g.c doesn't actually say the accurate count; it will say something like "Books 191 - 196 of 906", which I interpret as meaning "196". —Ruakh TALK 16:08, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

User:Mzajac/Language attributes
"What's the best way to deal with incorrect input? Should we add comprehensive error-checking?"

No, absolutely not. Got into a lot of trouble with this myself, other contributors complaining that the template code was unreadable.

"Should error input be corrected, dropped silently, or throw an error message?"

Corrected only in cases where it is necessary. Usually better than correction is to have obviously incorrect output, which does not have to be a pretty error. The cases that require most attention are errors that are likely yet not obvious. One way I've found to throw an error is by category, e.g. Category:Translation table header lacks gloss, but ideally that would be eliminated once the problem has been corrected.

"Should the input case be adjusted (EN > en)? This is supposed to be case-insensitive, so changing it is safe, and it may help buggy implementations deal with our content."

Good reasons, but also important that it is not obtuse coding and not resource intensive. May as well.

"If the code grows complex, should it be generalized and maintained in a single template, to be transcluded into any script template?"

Yes, but better to defer such until it is put to trial. A tolerable mess is okay: that's the way wikis are tweaked. From experience, putting out an idea as a change of direction does not easily gain traction. And again, better to keep it from growing complex in the first place. DAVilla 16:50, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Михайло
A couple of quick things. First, the code for (Old) Church Slavonic is. Also, it's important to make the distinction between Ancient Greek and Greek. Almost anything Biblical will come from Ancient Greek, as well as anything which comes from Old Church Slavonic, which predates the border between Ancient Greek and Greek (1453). I've made the appropriate changes to the entry. Cheers. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 22:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I have a few of these things figured out now, but I'm probably too timid to second-guess a source that just says “CS.” or “Greek”.  Cheers. —Michael Z. 2009-03-27 22:53 z 

cross the floor
The way you list it does appear that it is British with particular regard to Canada, which is clearly incorrect. But do we list them all Australia / NZ / Canada / South Africa etc, or would it be better to leave it as I had it with usage notes. I totally agree with your opinion with regard to Commenwealth English. No such thing, and I didn't realise when I reverted to the previous version that that was included. Will have another look later, no time now. Denis.--Dmol 03:38, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

en quad etc.
Your simplification eliminated a real if subtle distinction between en quad and en space. In a condensed font, the en quad remains 1 en wide, while the en space shrinks in width to the same degree as other characters. — Carolina wren <small style="font-family:sans-serif">discussió 16:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: "too wide"
To avoid confusion: my screen resolution is 1028x768. On Internet Explorer 7, I set Text Size to "Larger" - it is this that causes the appearance of a horizontal scroll bar on your new design. No other version of Wiktionary or Wikipedia etc does this (I have not actually tried them all!) and very few other sites do it either. SemperBlotto 15:09, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

404
I thought that the (machine readable) status code was "404" and the example (human readable) reason phrase was "Not found" Conrad.Irwin 22:47, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Template:index
Hi, I've noticed that you changed the formatting of the index alphabets. I like the font but the alphabet now takes two lines instead of one. Can you reduce the distance between the letters? Also, can you center it? It would look better. Thanks. --Panda10 11:27, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Context labels in ELE
Looks good, but I'd like to see just a bit more explaining what appropriate areas on "context" are. Not a complete list, of course, but perhaps three examples or three areas named to show appropriate scope rather than just (informal) as the only example. Perhaps revise the opening to:


 * A context label identifies a definition which only applies in a restricted context. Such labels indicate that the following definition has a restricted grammatical function, or occurs in a limited geographic region or temporal period, or is used only by specialists in a particular field and not by the general population.  Many context label templates also place an entry into a relevant category, but they must not be used merely for categorization (see category links, below).


 * One or more labels may be placed before the definition:

This would give more emphasis to what a context label is, rather than to what it is not (which the current draft emphasizes correctly, but omits sufficient explanation). note also the paragraph break between the theory of use and the practical implementation. --EncycloPetey 18:55, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

East Slavic and руський
Michael, please see the reply in my talk page. Here's a link describing the meaning. http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Руський Anatoli 05:16, 18 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Update. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Russian-Ukrainian You are right, there is such a meaning but there is a negative meaning too. Anatoli 05:19, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Landau
Out of curiosity, would the Landau reference you mentioned re: labels be The Art and Craft of Making Dictionaries? I've read that book (I don't remember whether I've checked the 2001 edition, though, do you know how updated it was?). I agree with the basic point about grammatical vs. other forms of information. In that regard, Wiktionary is quite anomalous in the way it deals with them. Circeus 16:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I absolutely agree about the conceptual aspect. I am in fact of the opinion that putting them as if they were contextual labels is a sub-par choice, but I unfortunately doubt we can do anything much about it anymore (and I would be hard-pressed to offer an alternative myself). Commercial dictionaries are lucky in that (I gather) they are usually written in a form of XML-like language, and the actual formatting is handled separately. We unfortunately do not have that possibility. Circeus 19:00, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Template:generally
I'd sooner delete that template rather than redirect it to "mainly". Those two words do not mean or imply the same thing. --EncycloPetey 05:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I looked at every case, deleted the ones where it appeared in isolation, and in all other cases it seemed to mean "mainly". I'm glad to delete it though, because its meaning isn't self-evident.  I'll list it at WT:RFDO. —Michael Z. 2009-06-25 05:06 z 

Talk:in
At your convenience, please take a look. I collected the top 100 in+noun collocations from COCA and began sorting.

Also, please see User talk:DCDuring. DCDuring TALK 04:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Collocations and search
See User_talk:Conrad.Irwin. DCDuring TALK 15:17, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

crescent
I am curious as to where "crescent" (for the pastry) is used in Canada: in areas with Francophones or withour? It may be a Canadianism. If we call crescent a derived term from crescent roll, then it should have a different etymology from the other senses of crescent. I believe that "crescent roll" was coined to relieve American consumers of the uncertainty of pronouncing "croissant". I'm going to see if I can get confirmation of that. My question about where crescent is used would have some bearing on whether it might be a contra-Francophone reaction. DCDuring TALK 10:47, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The CanOD doesn't provide any specific clues. croissant (1899) is a more recent reborrowing from French, while crescent (n. & adj.) has been around for a very long time, influenced by both Latin and French, and used for the pastry earlier (1886).  OED says that use is “more fully, crescent roll,” so it's not really clear whether the compound is derived from the abbreviation or vice versa.


 * My impression is that many older anglophones in Canada tend to resist French pronunciations, while people in French-speaking areas, younger, and better-educated people tend to use French and other borrowings more easily.


 * I'll try to check the Dictionary of Canadianisms (1967) in one of my nearby libraries, to see if there is any specific Canadian regional use documented. —Michael Z. 2009-07-17 13:35 z 


 * Thanks, but from what you've said it doesn't seem that "crescent" for the pastry has a separate etymology ("translated from French to defrancify local speech"), which was my principal interest. Not that I would have necessarily thought it necessary to add such an etymology, relying as it does on speculation about motives. It does give me a little opportunity to gain some insight into other language politics issues. DCDuring TALK 15:12, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Checked today: the DCHP doesn't have entries for crescent or croissant. —Michael Z. 2009-07-19 03:56 z 

colours
Since you seem to be citing color words anyway, please note that burgundy will be WOTD on the 30th of this month. --EncycloPetey 05:01, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Landau 2
I seem to recall that you had mentioned Landau, presumably the author of the books on lexicography. I'm trying to decide on the value of buying and reading some material in lexicography (Landau or ?), English grammar (CGEL or Quirk), and discourse analysis (?). An alternative is MIT linguistics course material. I am also specifically interested in any empirical data about how different classes of users use dictionaries. I'd appreciate your thoughts about the value of Landau or recommendations as to the other areas. Feel free to answer on my page if you prefer. ("Eavesdroppers'" comments welcome there, too.) DCDuring TALK 15:45, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

hiding the fundraising banner
Were you looking for a way to hind the fundraising banner? If so, try adding  to your monobook.css (I did, and it works). &#x200b;— msh210  ℠  02:04, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

templates
Please note: all template names on Wiktionary begin with a lower-case letter. --EncycloPetey 23:45, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm guessing you're referring to my use of . I always assumed that all templates are case-sensitive just like entries (including, for example,, ), and that  was another pointless inconsistency waiting for someone to vote out of existence.  I look forward to having my assumption disproved. —Michael Z. 2009-08-30 23:51 z 


 * You could note the edit history; Ruakh has protected the capitalized redirect to keep it from being altered. We had this discussion about capitalization of templates long ago, but I don't recall in which year.  Templates named for proper noun dialects seem to be the sole exceptions, at least that I'm aware of.  This isn't a pointless inconsistency but part of a conscious choice to prefer lowercase template names.  --EncycloPetey 23:59, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Perhaps there was a consensus discussion one time, but it looks to me like the de facto capitalization of both entries and templates is to capitalize per English usage. Examples include,  and , , , , , , , , ,.


 * I can find very few exceptions. Only {Wiktionary} is improperly l.c., and the handful of Category:Checkuser templates and big set of Category:User templates have initial caps added for no apparent reason. —Michael Z. 2009-08-31 00:28 z 

Lviv
IP undo (not sure why, so...) - Amgine/talk 22:49, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Reverting my revert.  I've expanded the etymology. —Michael Z. 2009-09-08 04:45 z 

hate sex
Thanks for the cleanup. The entry started due to a deletion discussion on Wikipedia; it was noted that the article there was a dictionary definition. I'd dug up some sources using the term but not giving enough discussion for an encyclopedia entry, so I thought I'd have a go at starting my first Wiktionary entry. Apologies that it wasn't quite right. Should I also begin hate fuck? That's also got sources to attest to its usage as a noun and verb, and I should have a better idea now on what to do. Fences and windows 01:48, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

do you know this Ukrianian expression?
Whenever something unexpected used to happen, my gido would say something that sounded like "khadzia komadia" (this was years ago, I appologize for the poor estimation of the sound) or something to that effect. When I asked my friend who is a native speaker, he said it means "what a comedy". Have you heard this expression? Do you know what it is properly spelled in Cyrillic? We don't have a translation for comedy on en-WT yet. It must be simmilar to Russian комедия, yes? What would be the translation of inerogative pronoun "what"? And lastly, do you think a good translation for meaning of the phrase would be "what a gong show"? Kevlar67 00:42, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Script templates
I was checking on templates for ISO 15924 codes and thought you might be able to help me out with a few questions. Thanks. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 23:11, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Should we use  for Appendix:Unicode/Georgian Supplement and the Asomtavruli ("Upper case") part of Appendix:Unicode/Georgian?
 * 2) Should we make  for the few Unicode characters?
 * 3) Are the Syriac variant codes (Syre, Syrj, Syrn) used?

Votes/2009-12/Proposed CFI exception for SI Units
In light of your participation in Beer parlour archive/2009/September, please contribute your thoughts to Votes/2009-12/Proposed CFI exception for SI Units. Cheers! <i style="background:lightgreen">bd2412</i> T 21:02, 18 December 2009 (UTC)