User talk:Nnt

Hi, thank you for your efforts with Vietnamese, just one little problem is that they are not formatted correctly. Could you please have a look through our format policy so that you know how to make the dictionary look right. I don't understand what you are adding so I am not sure how to fix it for you - maybe you could tell me and I can show you how to fix it?. I hope to see you around. Conrad.Irwin 09:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

non standard formatting
Thanks for sending me your message.

Just take an example to make things clear. 同 for example, can be read in two sywtems.

Hán Việt (Chinese characters and syntax, Vietnamese pronunciation) : only one pronunciation : "đồng" All Chinese texts can be read this way

Nôm (Chinese and Vietnamese characters, Vietnamese syntax, Vietnamese pronunciation) : the previous character is used to approximate various vietnamese words : "đang", "đồng" , "đùng".

㑫is not a Han character, and is purely Nôm.

The references I have included is to indicate the Dictionaries in which the different pronunciations can be found.

Sorry to have written non standard contributions. Could you correct a few ones, so that I could take them as examples ? The 2 previous characters for example

Thanks

---

"Sometimes two words with different etymologies belong in the same article because they are spelled the same (they are homographs). In such a case  there will be more than one "Etymology" header, which we number. Hence for a word like lead the basic header skeleton looks like this:

===Etymology 1===

====Pronunciation====

====Noun====

===Etymology 2===

====Pronunciation====

====Noun====

====Verb==== "Note that in the case of multiple etymologies, all subordinate headers need to have "their levels increased by 1 in order to comply with the fundamental concept of showing dependence through nesting."

The reason for my formatting is similar to the "Etymology" section here.

A chinese character such as 同 can appear : 1. in a chinese text (100% chinese), such as Yi Jing, and thus is pronounced in Hán Việt pronunciation ("đồng" ). All chinese texts can be read Vietnemese way. 2. In a Vietnamese text, mixing characters of Hán origins and pure Nôm character, (such as "nộm" 㑫) and can have many different pronunciations depending on the context. 同 can be pronounced "đồng" as in a Chinese text (Hán Việt), or "đùng" (Nôm). Ex: "bạn đồng môn nổi giận đùng đùng" 伴同門浽恨同同, which is a pure Vietnamese construction, although using 6 chinese characters assembled with a Vietnamese syntax.

These are the two systems which were used in ancient Vietnam, although many people tend to confuse them. This is the reason why there are two kinds of dictionaries: Hán Việt dictionaries, and Nôm dictionaries, because they are two different languages (Hán Việt is Chinese, Nôm is Vietnamese)

"Reading" instead of "pronunciation"
Perhaps, I should replace "pronunciation" with "reading", as in japanese, in which there are two "reading" systems of the same character.


 * I think you are meaning === Alternative Spellings ===. Conrad.Irwin 12:36, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

different "words", not spelling
These differents readings are completely different words which have nothing to do with each other in modern romanized Vietnamese, not just spellings of the same word. A chinese character in Nôm system is more or less a phonetic symbol. There were two languages in use in ancient vietnam. Japanese = 1 system, 2 readings Vietnamese = 2 languages, 2 readings

I have tried to do this : ====Readings====

====Readings==== *

The problem is I am not able to display the same thing as the Japanese entry : each reading on a separate pararagraph. Could you help, please ?


 * Yes, see 欣 which I reformatted. We use only headers in English, and as you can see the format in Japanese. (Oh, and please leave the # {defn} line where it is, for a simple meaning of the character if anyone cares to add it. Robert Ullmann 09:11, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Did you create a template? I don't see it. I'll fix it to work ... the parameters should be just in plain latin letters (han=, nom=) and then the display can show the proper words. Robert Ullmann 09:11, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The solution is fine. As 欣 is a Han character,its Hán Việt readings are already enclosed with the character itself. There is no need to repeat the Hán Việt readings under the "Readings" sub section. For characters like 櫊,㑫 which are not Chinese characters, the Nôm readings will be enclosed with the character (No readings sub section)--Nnt 19:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)