User talk:PUC/Needed entries


 * Γεια σου Σαρρή. Μπορείς να μου πείς ποιες ελληνικές παρομοιώσεις ξέρεις μεταξύ αυτές>αυτών<; Βρήκα αυτή τη λίστα με το γουγκλ. Θα ήθελα προς το παρόν να έχουμε οι>τις< πιο γνωστές και χρήσιμες. Ευχαριστώ! --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 16:47, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

about greek list
Γεια σου Μπάρρυ (sounding like Larry) < > the roman ( * ΦίλεX... How about a Category:Names of X. (A.S.: Your greek is great. My corrections >..< are meant as exercice. Or i stop if you don't want them).
 * Please don't stop! Your corrections are very welcome. --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 00:30, 22 January 2018 (UTC)


 * lists for simile/παρομοίωση-expressions (in greek) are like stamp collections: endless, constructed ad libitum. Metaphor lists are like coin collections: limited number. I would prefer, as a user, a List of metaphors. In your list, most similia are also explanations of metaphors.
 * Yes, I agree: I only want to have the expressions/similes/metaphors that are really . Not all metaphors/similes belong in a dictionary; some are only the creation of one author. --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 00:30, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * other denotations: Expressions: almost fixed. Proverbs: absolutely fixed. Adjective-metaphors. Homer started it; his stereotypic epithets (ῥοδοδάκτυλος Ἠώς. In mod.greek: inherited (not borrowed :)) as ροδοδάκτυλη/ροδοδάχτυλη αυγή. etc...)
 * links:
 * el.wiktionary has lots of similibus and metaphors in their pages. They are good at it.
 * The problem is that they don't have entries for them yet. They add them as "derived terms" (I think), so it's more difficult to find them. I'd like to fill el:Κατηγορία:Παρομοιώσεις (ελληνικά), but I couldn't find any (compare with el:Κατηγορία:Παρομοιώσεις (γαλλικά), and Category:French similes). --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 00:30, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Παρομοιώσεις @iep.edu.gr bib.rec+pdf. Answer/Teacher guide for Word-exercises for schoolchildren age 11-12. By [w:Manolis_Triantafyllidis|Triantafyllides]. pub:1949. (a little dated --ντροπαλός σαν κορίτσι, σαν τα μυλολίθια=mill-stones-- but much better than contemporary textbooks. Triantafyllides is still an unparalleled and unbeatable ref. He wrote many such little textbooks for children.)
 * on metaphors schoolbook ages 14-17 Answers to the exercises (not terribly accurate, but adequate here)
 * on metaphors schoolbook ages 14-17 Answers to the exercises (not terribly accurate, but adequate here)


 * i have written some comments for every entry of your list, but they are TOO long. (Some, duplications. Some, poorly phrased as similia, but ok as explanations for metaphors (φοβάμαι σαν λαγός). Some not παρομοιώσεις at all (το χιόνι έμοιαζε σαν κάτασπρο). Others, poetic only. Google but what google? Evvvery teacher has a blog up there. check but not trust)
 * that's what I feared. I found them here. We must have good lemmata before creating entries, so I'm glad that you're severe! --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 00:30, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * i would list them twofold: 1) the sense and 2) the analogy-word (polysemy of word). Distinguish simile-metaphor-expression-proverb. Mark when words can be inflected. In proverbs the do not. E.g.
 * sense άσπρος
 * άσπρος-η-ο σαν το χιόνι
 * άσπρος-η-ο σαν τα πανιά/σαν το πανί


 * χιόνι - figurative use:
 * (whiteness): άσπρος-η-ο σαν το χιόνι
 * (old-age, white hair): 'Τα μαλλιά του, σαν το χιόνι',  'έγειρε το χιονισμένο του κεφάλι'
 * (long-time no-see, very rare): Σαν τα χιόνια! (fixed expression).  'Σαν τα χιόνια! έχουμε να σας δούμε δύο χρόνια.'


 * πανί - figurative use: (πανί)
 * (whiteness of complexion from fear/disease): άσπρος-η-ο σαν τα πανιά / άσπρος-η-ο σαν το πανί
 * (peniless): 'πανί με πανί' (expression)


 * some are more standard as adj.: e.g. ατσαλένιος (explanation = σαν ατσάλι), σιδερένιος etc
 * Here are the MOST common you asked for: Ι would not lemmatized them. Perhaps Categories: Metaphors & Simile with xxwordxx? ΝΟΤΕ:  The final -ν of 'σαν' is always written (unlike τη(ν)). schoolgrammar MY NOTE:It is dropped only in fast speech


 * αστραπή: (very fast, sudden): γρήγορος/ξαφνικός 'σαν αστραπή'
 * σαν σίφουνας (e.g. enter rushing like a typhoon)
 * σαν αθώα el:περιστερά (in gre.anc. inflection)
 * NOT calm as a dove. Pretending to be innocent. Cunning.
 * μοιάζουν σαν δίδυμοι = they look alike like twins.
 * πετάω σαν πουλί
 * fly like a bird
 * ελεύθερος σαν πουλί
 * free as a bird
 * πεινάω σαν λύκος lit: I am hungry like a wolf
 * I am famished.
 * δουλεύει σαν ρολόι = works (perfectly) like a clock.
 * works... uff there is an expression
 * καπνίζω σαν φουγάρο
 * literaly: I smoke like a chimney. (I do by the way... Packs of cigars)
 * λιώνω σαν το κερί = lit. I melt like a candle
 * from despair
 * σκληρή καρδιά σαν πέτρα
 * heart of stone? heartless.
 * χείλη/χείλια σαν κεράσι
 * λεπτός σαν κλωστή
 * this could be your
 * γυρνάω σαν φάντασμα = lit. I walk around like a ghost
 * άσπρος 'σαν χιόνι'
 * compare Χιονάτη Snow White
 * μαύρος 'σαν πίσσα' = ήταν μαύρος 'πίσσα' = 'κατράμι'
 * μαύρος σαν κόρακας more standard: μαύρος σαν καλιακούδα (both black birds)
 * yes, κόρακας has always been there. gre.anc: Ες κόρακα. mod.gre: Άει στον κόρακα = Go to hell, beat it)
 * εργατικός 'σαν μέλισσα'
 * πηδάω-άς-ά.../σκαρφαλώνω 'σαν κατσίκι'
 * κολυμπάω-άς-ά... 'σαν δελφίνι'
 * γίνομαι-εσαι... 'κόκκινος σαν παπαρούνα'
 * κοκκινίζω σαν παντζάρι = I blush like a beetroot
 * ψηλός 'σαν κυπαρίσσι' - 'ψηλός σαν κυπαρίσσι'
 * ψηλός σαν el:κυπαρίσσι ΝΟΤ thin as a rail. = tall like a cypress (tall, proud, grand, beautiful, waw. el:λεβέντης)
 * οπλισμένος/αρματωμένος 'σαν αστακός'
 * θάλασσα ήρεμη 'σαν το λάδι' = 'θάλασσα λάδι'
 * I think only Greece has it.
 * 🇨🇬 Per utramque cavernam 14:42, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * (impolite): μύτη 'σαν μελιτζάνα'
 * μέση σαν δαχτυλίδι = 'μέση δαχτυλίδι' (expression) very thin waist (for women)
 * τραγουδάω 'σαν αηδόνι'
 * (αγέραστος) 'σαν τα ψηλά βουνά' (expression, wishing many years)
 * (πονηρός) 'σαν αλεπού'
 * yes (It is all Aesop's fault. And La Fontaine.)
 * γλυκός-ιά-ό 'σαν μέλι'
 * used for fruits, sweet foods.
 * στριμωγμένοι/στοιβαγμένοι 'σαν σαρδέλες'
 * is there 'like sardines'?
 * ! Per utramque cavernam 14:39, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * φαρμακερός 'σαν οχιά'
 * αγνός/αθώος 'σαν παιδί' = innocent like a child
 * κάνει 'σαν παιδί' = he is being childish
 * 'ωραίος σαν' άγγελος/Χριστός/Απόλλωνας/Έλληνας
 * σκληρός 'σαν ατσάλι' / γερός σαν σίδερο
 * standard expressions
 * (δίκαιος) σαν τον Αριστείδη = 'σαν τον Αριστείδη τον δίκαιο' (expression)
 * you know him? Aristides
 * (fear) 'τρέμω-εις-ει... σαν το ψάρι'
 * (bitterness/sadness) 'σαν φαρμάκι' 'σαν δηλητήριο' (Λόγια πικρά σαν φαρμάκι)
 * καθαρό 'σαν κρύσταλλο' - κρύο (νερό) 'σαν κρύσταλλο' (Το νερό είναι κρύο σαν κρύσταλλο / καθαρό σαν κρύσταλλο)
 * not exactly 'crystal clear'. That would be an adj. ορ adverb. κρυστάλλινα. διάφανα.
 * γλυκός-ιά-ό 'σαν μέλι' (φρούτα γλυκά σαν μέλι)
 * oops we have this one already
 * όμορφος-η-ο 'σαν ζωγραφιά' = cute
 * ? --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 00:41, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * ufff yes. What a silly παρομοίωση. There's a greek nursery rhyme about a little rabbit: 'είσαι σα ζω-γρΑ-φιΑ). I do NOT have the weight of the expression in english. My years in England are not that many. I can describe to you the greek υποδηλώσεις? errr... what is meant under. But for english i cannot.
 * ελαφρύς-ιά-ύ 'σαν πούπουλο'* 'ακλόνητος-η-ο σαν βράχος'
 * light as a feather
 * 'γυρίζει σαν σβούρα'
 * (ξε)φυτρώνω-εις-ει/ 'σαν μανιτάρι' φυτρώνουμε-ετε-ουν 'σαν μανιτάρια' = I intervene out of place
 * SYN = πετιέμαι σαν ραπανάκι = I interrupt out of place.
 * τυλίγομαι-σαι... 'σαν κισσός'
 * μανιασμένος 'σαν ταύρος' = ορμάω 'σαν ταύρος εν υαλοπωλείω'
 * EXACT translation. Expression à la manière de grec ancient: σαν/ ως 'ταῦρος ἐν ὑαλοπωλείῳ'
 * κορμοστασιά 'σαν λυγαριά' = λυγερός-ή-ό (mainly for young women)
 * (ασφάλεια) όπως/σαν τα πλοία στο λιμάνι
 * (crowded) σαν μελίσσι
 * τρωγόμαστε/τρώγονται σαν το σκύλο με τη γάτα (expression)
 * quarelling like...
 * δουλεύω-εις-ει... σαν σκυλί
 * I word like a dog
 * δουλεύω σαν σκλάβος, δουλεύω σαν είλωτας
 * same sense as above.
 * γλιστράω-άς-ά... σαν χέλι (avoid things, escape difficult questions, evasive)
 * AND ... the dirty ones (of course Triantafyllides did not teach these to the little children)
 * same sense as above.
 * γλιστράω-άς-ά... σαν χέλι (avoid things, escape difficult questions, evasive)
 * AND ... the dirty ones (of course Triantafyllides did not teach these to the little children)

Would you like me to post more details? It would be interesting to re-do (update) the Triantafyllides list. Also, i got you some more metatheses. See you ΦΧ. (Always Bary to me). Have you figured out your Πρ hypernym? sarri.greek (talk) 07:40, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, the Triantafyllides list is very interesting, and I trust him. I think we could work with him first. The first one he mentions: μαύρος σαν κόρακας? Is it proverbial? --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 00:30, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for those metatheses, I've added them! But don't the two first pairs (ήμερος–ήρεμος and αμαρτωλός–αρματολός) have different etymologies? --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 00:30, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

about greek list 2
Whom am I replying to now... Give me some time, X, thanks sarri.greek (talk) 01:39, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) you want idiomatic (oops, in greek ιδιωματισμός is quite different --uf, this def here is truly off--. el:ιδιωματισμός. ιδίωμα too.) How about a list of 'false friends') WHY don't they have some examples for idiomatic? I cannot FEEL what it is. For us it is a very rare regional expression I guess you want the stereotyped metaphors. Triantafyllides has them. Not that other gentleman.
 * 2) el.wiktionary has some seriously good greek lemmata, but i think they cannot ... computerize things; categories, tables and so on. It is a crime in wiktionary that modules are not offered by specialized people to all wiktionaires. Why should people work x10 languages to achieve the same thing. Check el:χιόνι / χιόνι, el:μάτι full of metaphors, proverbs etc. They do not lemmatize them, which i think is correct. The reader has a full view in 1 page. But they could label them of course.
 * 3) Oh yes you are right. only ροδάκινο δοράκινο fall into your category. In my page i toss everyhing. Your culpa! Collecting groups of words...
 * 4) Could you first decide on the style (see paragraph about my 2fold thinking). Are we looking for the descriptive word first? or the sense? I need a compass. Perhaps you are thinking of coordination with other languages' lists. Give me example plizzz.. What worries me... is that in greek some expressions do not come as a whole: ήσυχος σαν αρνί. The sense is usually skipped, inferred. People say: Αυτός? σαν αρνί... σκέτο αρνί...  I cannot draw the line between metaphor and simile. You'll be the judge.
 * 5) I am moving now to the list. By the by... why do you want this particular list? Psycho-comparative-linguistics? how nations form similar or different metaphors in their collective mind?