User talk:Razorflame/Promise

I don't agree to this horseshit. — [&#32;R·I·C&#32;] opiaterein — 21:33, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Neither. Note that despite the claim of knowledgeableness in Italian he isn't even sure how to form a plural. See my comments at User_talk:SemperBlotto. Equinox ◑ 23:02, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Problem has been solved. Italian has been removed from the contract.  I will make no further edits in Italian. Razorflame 23:05, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This does not solve the problem of your "contract" being self-imposed and invalid. Equinox ◑ 00:07, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This was discussed extensively over IRC and several people suggested that I write up a contract on wiki. I was just following their lead.  What about it is self-imposed and invalid? Razor</b><b style="color:#696969">fl</b><b style="color:#808080">ame</b> 00:19, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It is self-imposed because you created and wrote it yourself. It is invalid because we have no precedent for people making up their own rules like that; what is the point of having policies if anyone can sidestep them and give themselves special privileges? Equinox ◑ 00:22, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This is not meant to sidestep anything. If this is so controversial, then just delete this page and we can forget about it.  Is that what you are wanting? <b style="color:#000">Ra</b><b style="color:#696969">z</b><b style="color:#808080">or</b><b style="color:#696969">fl</b><b style="color:#808080">ame</b> 00:29, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. — <font face="Lucida console">[&#32;R·I·C&#32;] opiaterein — 18:19, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No need to delete it, but don't expect people to abide by it. &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 18:18, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess I am guilty of introducting the term "contract" for the idea that should possibly better be termed "pledge" or "promise". The so called contract was to be a written specification of what Razorflame willingly abides by, written by Razorflame but negotiated with disgruntled admins. It would not be an agreement between two parties. It would nevertheless borrow from legal contracts the idea that things should be carefully formulated and specified, as if the text were to be disputed in the court of law. It would be afterwards clear what Razorflame promised, what not, and in part what he refused to promise. --Dan Polansky 18:40, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Italian?
Hello there. I would like to say that I have learnt some Italian now and am now an it-1 user. Therefore, I would like to request that I be able to make Italian entries again. You can see some of my example sentences at User:Razorflame/Italian sentences. Thanks, <b style="color:#000">Ra</b><b style="color:#696969">z</b><b style="color:#808080">or</b><b style="color:#696969">fl</b><b style="color:#808080">ame</b> 03:41, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No, your translations of even your simple sentences contained serious errors. I've fixed a couple of them.   Your sentences are the sort of thing that might be learned in the first week of a college language course.  It takes a lot more than constructing simple sentences to be a "1" in any language. --EncycloPetey 03:43, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. I'll keep on working on it then :).  Thanks for the feedback! <b style="color:#000">Ra</b><b style="color:#696969">z</b><b style="color:#808080">or</b><b style="color:#696969">fl</b><b style="color:#808080">ame</b> 03:46, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Italian? redux
After talking it over with SemperBlotto, he said that he would trust me with adding and editing Italian entries, so long as I add the attention template to the entries that I am not sure about. I've been studying the Italian language for about a month now, and I believe that I am ready to append my promise to allow me to add Italian entries now. What does anyone think about this move? Thanks, <b style="color:#000">Ra</b><b style="color:#696969">z</b><b style="color:#808080">or</b><b style="color:#696969">fl</b><b style="color:#808080">ame</b> 16:20, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Note
Hello there. First off, I just want to say that I feel like I am being treated completely differently from all of the other users on this site because of this promise and how I have to be restricted in the languages that I can edit. I've made form-of entries in Finnish and Hungarian in the past (for longer than a few months for Hungarian), and while I do not understand the difference between them, I know that Panda10, Hekaheka, and Jyril would not make any mistakes in the entries that they make. Furthermore, users like Opiaterein, Strabismus, Dijan, and a few other users are able to edit in languages that they are learning to help them learn faster. I am unable to do this, and I feel as though it is causing me to not learn the new languages as quickly. While I do understand the point that I could make mistakes, I usually notice mistakes that I make and fix them right after I make them. Therefore, I do not see any reason why I should have restrictions in place, because these restrictions are making it very hard for me to keep on continuing to edit here. Only being able to edit in four different languages is making me very bored and making me lose my motivation to edit here. If, for example, I was able to create form-of entries, even in languages that I don't know, so long as I have the permission of a native speaker or the main contributor for that language, I don't see what the big deal is. That way, since I would have many more different things to do, I won't be as bored and I will be extremely motivated to edit here.

Since I am not able to edit in lots of languages, I don't see how I can learn new languages without being able to learn them whilst I edit here. That is the way that I learned how to write in both Esperanto and Ido, and I feel as though I would be able to make much more of a difference on the English Wiktionary if I were able to not have restrictions on the languages that I can edit. I hope this is making sense to you. I found that I was able to learn Esperanto and Ido much faster than normal by being able to edit in them while I learn them, and I would like to continue doing so in other languages that I want to learn, however, the restrictions placed upon me from my stupid promise are really dragging me down.

So what do you say? Can we remove the restrictions placed upon me so that I can start to help out in more areas of the English Wiktionary? I promise to make sure to not make any (or too many) mistakes. I just want the chance to be able to prove that I can edit in other languages without making mistakes. <b style="color:#00C">Raz</b><b style="color:#009">or</b><b style="color:#006">fl</b><b style="color:#003">am</b><b style="color:#000">e</b> 09:03, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Making promises: The promise page makes all promises that you make traceable; it makes you accountable for what you say. A promise made in an IRC session is not traceable, and it cannot be refined or polished. It is your responsibility to make or avoid a promise: if you decide to make a promise—and that is your decision and no one else's—, you should keep it. You have been promising things to admins before there was the promise page; the promise page merely lets me and everyone else know what it was that you have promised.
 * Practice book: Wiktionary is not a learning playground; it is a project to build a dictionary. A learner of a language can usefully contribute if he is very careful. But, as experience shows, you are not particularly careful. It is your high error rate that has lead to several admins repeatedly asking you not to edit in certain languages.
 * Fun park: Wiktionary is not a fun park or an entertainment business. While it is okay to have fun while editing Wiktionary, having fun is only a side effect or a helpful means to achieve the ultimate goals of the project, which is to have an excellent, reliable and comprehensive multilingual dictionary. If editing in English, Ido, Esperanto and Spanish is not enough fun for you, so be it; Wiktionary can endure this loss.
 * Keeping promises: Admins have complained on your talk page that you do not keep promises. Now you are promising to contribute with low error rate. How in the world are you going to achieve this when you are not even able to keep a formal promise that you have made in the promise page for two months?
 * You should stick with your promise until 1. March 2010 and then renegotiate it. --Dan Polansky 09:26, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I know that the English Wiktionary is a place for serious contributions, and that is what I wanted to contribute for. I agree that I had a high error rate when making base entries in languages that I did not know, but I do not believe that I had a very high error rate for form-of entries.  I realize that in the past, I was not particularly careful, however, I have found that I am definitely able to be more careful now as is evidenced by my edits lately.  A very large portion of my edits were carefully thought out and I definitely think that I could apply this to other languages while I learn.  I understand that I have to be very careful when editing in languages that I am learning, and that is what I intend to do now.
 * I must apologize for my lack of good wording in my above message. What I like is to keep things new and interesting to keep my motivation alive while I edit here.  For example, if I edit in Esperanto for two weeks, and then edit in, say, Finnish for two weeks, I would have edited in different things and that would have kept me interested.  I understand that our goal is to be an excellent, reliable and comprehensive multilingual dictionary, and I honestly don't see any problems with someone creating a gloss definition for a particular entry.  For example, I wouldn't have a problem with someone making a gloss definition for the Esperanto word parto, for example, so long as the gloss definition was correct.  That is what I intend to do.  I intend to write gloss definitions.  That way, whenever another person who speaks the language wants to add to it to make it not a gloss definition anymore, they are free to do so.
 * Earlier, you said that I only had to wait until the 6th of February before proposing changes, however, I still think that this is unfair treatment. All I am asking for is another chance to prove that I can edit in languages that I am learning in a careful and thoughtful manner.  That's it.  Thanks, <b style="color:#00C">Raz</b><b style="color:#009">or</b><b style="color:#006">fl</b><b style="color:#003">am</b><b style="color:#000">e</b> 09:45, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * After you make a long series of mistakes, it does not matter what you think about your new ability but what other people think. You now have the option to demonstrate to other people that you can keep promises.
 * Re "Earlier, you said that I only had to wait until the 6th of February": Did I? Can you hyperlink to it? --Dan Polansky 10:12, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Never mind. I guess I will just have to wait until the 1st of March.  Anyways, I'm glad that I was able to get my thoughts out about this.  Cheers, <b style="color:#00C">Raz</b><b style="color:#009">or</b><b style="color:#006">fl</b><b style="color:#003">am</b><b style="color:#000">e</b> 10:16, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This is not okay with me. Where have I said that you only had to wait until the 6th of February? Are you retracting it? Is this the new accuracy and care that you are promising? --Dan Polansky 10:35, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I was mistaken. I thought that I remembered seeing it as the 6th of February, but I was wrong.  Here is the link.  Sorry for misreading it.  No, I am not retracting it.  I will do as you said and wait until the first of March to begin discussions about modifying the promise, as discussed on my talk page here.  Hope this clears up the confusion :) <b style="color:#00C">Raz</b><b style="color:#009">or</b><b style="color:#006">fl</b><b style="color:#003">am</b><b style="color:#000">e</b> 11:10, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay; thanks for the correction. --Dan Polansky 11:21, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Final version of promise
Hello there all. I am going to write the final version of my promise here on my userpage. Therefore, this page, and the regular page are obsolete now. Please read my final version of my promise on my talk page. Cheers, <b style="color:#00C">Raz</b><b style="color:#009">or</b><b style="color:#006">fl</b><b style="color:#003">am</b><b style="color:#000">e</b> 04:39, 9 February 2010 (UTC)