User talk:Stefan~enwiktionary

Serbian language in the Swadesh list
Здраво. Ја сам тај, ко преобратио српски речи са латинице на ћирилицу. Опростите, што не објаснио ово на странице дискусије. На колико ја знајем, официаљно српски језик имает само ћириличну азбуку, а народ употребае ћирилицу и латиницу 50/50, и српска википедија употребае углавном ћирилицу. Или ја нисам точан?

Ја лоше знајем српски (српскохрватски) језик, тако што опростите ми ако нисам појмљив. Ако што није исправано, тада молим вас, исправите. Stefan 15:29, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, both Cyrillic and Latin are official for Serbian, just like both ijekavian and ekavian variants (much like it was valid for Serbo-Croatian of Yugoslavia). As far as I recall, constitutional changes in 1997 that made Serbian official language say the the "official script is Cyrillic, with Latin where it's appropriate", or something like that. Serbian wikipedia is displayed in Cyrillic by default, but there is "Latinica" tab that converts text to Latin (that works fine in 99% cases, except for nouns such as "nadžupan", injekcija and alike). I have no problems with either script being used, it's just that I add Serbian in latinica by default because it's easier for me to type it (don't want to waste time using Latin-Cyrilic converters). In Swadesh lists, or for lists such as those of inside Category:Proto-Slavic language there isn't much space to add both script, so one should be chosen and consistenly used. You can convert those too to Cyrillic if you please.

Hello Stefan :-)

Both Cyrillic and Latin (Roman) scripts for Serbian are used here on wiktionary, both for adding new entries, and translations. For those proto-Slavic nouns I've been adding - there *is* enough space for both (unlike those long lists such as Swadesh), so we should add both.

Anyway, feel free to add/correct entries in your native tongue (I suppose it's Russian :), and any other you have proficiency in. I think I'll add couple of hundreds of those proto-terms, to make a central place for list of mutual Slavic (and othe Indo-European) cognates, especially those not recored in Old Church Slavonic. Cheers --Ivan Štambuk 00:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you. But don't you think that in fact Croatian/Bosnian variant of the word is quite enough for plain reference (after all this is the purpose of this lists, isn't it?), because usually it is just like a Serbian one but in Latin script? After all the ijekavian accent is a literary one in Serbia.


 * And if we shall go on this way, we shall have to write all the ways of writing and spelling of a word. I hope I am not overstating. That's just because I have just completed converting the words to the Cyrillic script. Best regards, Stefan 01:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * And about the word долъ (hr. dol). I think that it will be better to write in Serbian not "до" или "дол", већ "долина", или није тако?
 * И на хрватском реч "лѣсъ" је пише се "лијес" или како (сада је написано "лес")?
 * Стога ја не запишем ову страницу док јесу ови потешкоће... Опростите за лош српски (једва почео учити).


 * We're dealing with languages on standardological level, not dialectal isoglosses. All Slavic languages have been standardized on some dialects (sometimes different, sometimes the same) in the last 250 years. Bosnian/Croatian certainly merit inclusion, because ijekavian dialect is by no means exclusively Serbian, whatever pan-Serbian FUD-spreading nationalists from Vuk Stefanović Karadžić to Pavle Ivić have been emitting in the last 150 years (prior to that, Serbian literary language was "Slavoserbian" - obscure mixture of Russian and Serbian recension of Church Slavonic). Most Serbian Serbs speak ekavian, and ijekavian variant has been standardized just because there is vast amount of Serbs (esp. in Bosnia and Hercegovina) who speek it - totally silly if you ask me. Croatian dialects Čakavian and Kajkavian preserve ikavian and ekavian isoglosses respectively, but they are not standard language (although they contribute some lexemes into it) and stating their variants of the Proto-Slavic term could be worthwile for comparative purposes (mlěko - mlijeko, mliko, mleko), but I would certainly not practise linking standard words to them. Sometimes it's useful for comparative purposes to note that some Proto-Slavic root has been preserved only dialectally, as I've stated on the talk page, and that information is much more important, I think..


 * Yes, we should include "all the ways of writing" of a word, ijekavian/ekavian and Latin/Cyrillic, respecting the fact that the Serbian is standardized on 2 different scripts × two different "pronunciation variants". But not in Swadesh lists and lists of Proto-terms - they're big enough as they are now. Row/Column width is automatically increased to fit the largest entry. So far the table fits nicely on 15'+ screens, and I've even left two columns (for Kashubian and Slovincian) just because of that.


 * "dolina" is morphologically derived from "dol", but "dol" more precisely reflects the original Proto-Slavic noun and should be mentioned. "dol"/"do" is usually used as a stylistically marked lexeme (e.g. in poetry), just like "kam" (instead of "kamen" - stone), "plam" (instead of "plamen" - flame), but those shortened variants are directly inherted from Proto-Slavic, and the other ones are derived.


 * лѣсъ has been reflected as both "les" and "lijes" in Croatian - the first one meaning "forest" or "woods" and is used dialectally (usually in Zagorje and Slavonia), the latter meaning "coffin" :) --Ivan Štambuk 11:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

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