Wiktionary:Grease pit/2024/July

My poiuytrewq page edit.
I don't really know what happened as I tried to edit the poiuytrewq page to add more content, but it was flagged for vandalism. I honestly don't think what I did was vandalism, and I find my changes constructive. I am hoping my hour of work of changes aren't a waste of time. :/

Also, I left the poiuytrewq edit page when heading to this link, and I have no idea where my edits went, so I can't really show them. If they are gone forever, double screw me. :/ :/

Ehh the page will probably disappear like the rest of the qwertyuiop pages.Metanight01 (talk) 03:48, 1 July 2024 (UTC)


 * @Metanight01 your edit was in good faith (not vandalism), but it is not in scope for this website. We are in the business of documenting words, not keyboard trivia. To help improve the entry, you could assist us by finding durably archived citations to help verify that this string is actually used as a word with some definable meaning. This, that and the other (talk) 02:01, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Quotation template showing up as linked to entries in which it is not used
Why are, , , and showing up as “pages that link to ‘Template:RQ:Burney Evelina’”? This template, which is for an 18th-century book, is not used anywhere in these entries. The only connection which I can see is that the template is used in the entry, which also appears in the template. — Sgconlaw (talk) 03:44, 3 July 2024 (UTC)


 * @Sgconlaw It's an inherent part of parsing entries, unfortunately, because it involves checking each template in turn to see if it's relevant, and part of that involves attempting to resolve it as a redirect (so that l resolves to link or whatever). However, this seems to trigger a "transclusion" in the back-end somewhere; I suspect because something further up the chain (i.e. out of our direct control) has to check the template's page for #REDIRECT ... or some such. I will have a think if there's a way to avoid triggering a transclusion, but if you're trying to find a list of pages which contain RQ:Burney Evelina then it's probably better to use the searchbar rather than Special:WhatLinksHere, since I assume want to exclude any pages that are merely transcluding it via some other template. Theknightwho (talk) 07:57, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * hmmm. Have to say that seems unexpected and weird to my (mostly non-technical) mind. — Sgconlaw (talk) 11:10, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It's annoying, I agree. The page is technically being read, but it's so far removed from what people understand by "transclusion" that I don't think it should count. Theknightwho (talk) 11:16, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Theknightwho IMO this is going to be a big problem as etymon is used more often. I use "references of" (which is underlyingly the same as Special:WhatLinksHere) extensively in my bot work for determining which pages to operate on. The search bar is not a suitable replacement and I'm not even sure it can be automated by bot. We should file a Phabricator ticket to have them try to fix this but in the meantime I think it is probably best to allow the auto-redirecting feature of the template parser to be turned off, and turn it off for etymon. I would rather sacrifice auto-redirecting (and figure out how to work around it) than have "references of" become unusable. Benwing2 (talk) 21:56, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Benwing2 I think a better solution is to cut down on indiscriminate page parsing, by having etymon only parse the text in etymology sections. That also has the advantage of being less work for the template parser, too. Theknightwho (talk) 18:51, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It's not great that WhatLinksHere is being polluted in this way. If the only reason that this is occurring is because of a need to resolve template redirects, it seems it would be better to store a bot- or script-updated list of relevant template redirects in a Lua data module. This, that and the other (talk) 11:33, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I guess we have to get past thinking of transclusion as only a realis phenomenon and allow for irrealis. DCDuring (talk) 19:06, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

you may know something about this. — Sgconlaw (talk) 04:51, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Template is rendering wrong
As User:Rasmusklump helpfully pointed out, R:sh:RJA is rendering incorrectly (e.g. see leden). Currently, there is an error message asking us to see Module:checkparams, but that is wildly obscure and not helpful. who recently edited it. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 10:41, 3 July 2024 (UTC)


 * This was probably caused by recent edits by at mod:checkparams. It looks like it's not safe to make preview-only error messages that go over multiple lines of wikitext. This, that and the other (talk) 11:44, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hmm - this was working before over multiple lines of text, but I did change the implementation recently to avoid a hack, and it did require reworking some things, so that may be the cause. Theknightwho (talk) 11:47, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Theknightwho It will fail specifically after, as in   - is this what you tested it with? This, that and the other (talk) 13:15, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @This, that and the other No, it isn't - previously I was using a hacky way to get working &lt;pre&gt; tags, but I wanted to avoid it because it was awkward, so decided to do it a different way that didn't involve the weird hack. However, it seems to make it a lot more "exposed" now, so I'll just reinstate the old version. It's not that bad - just a bit convoluted - but I think having fully-functioning &lt;pre&gt; tags is more important, since it avoids any issues like this. Theknightwho (talk) 13:27, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Deprecating the head= parameter in Serbo-Croatian headword templates
Currently, none of the Serbo-Croatian headword-line templates make use of the 1=, 2=, ... parameters. Since every one of these templates uses the head= parameter, it makes sense to me to just use the numbered parameters for it instead. I made a rewritten version of mod:sh-headword, based on mod:zlw-lch-headword, which sets head= (and tr=) as a default parameter for each template, and uses the numbered parameters as an alias for head=. It can be found here: mod:User:Stujul/sh-headword.

My question is if someone more experienced than me could look at the rewrite to verify that I made no errors in the code, and if we could then implement this module, and run a bot to remove the head= parameter from Serbo-Croatian headwords. Stujul (talk) 13:52, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Extra horizontal line below also
In entries which contain also at the top of the page but have no table of contents, an extra horizontal line is added between the See also line and the language header. Is this intentional? It appeared a few days ago and I don't remember having seen it before. (See e.g. Tolón.) Einstein2 (talk) 17:48, 3 July 2024 (UTC)


 * @Surjection This commit of yours to MediaWiki:Common.css could be the culprit, but I'm not sure as it doesn't have any changelog message and I'm not sure what its purpose is. Can you take a look (and add a comment explaining what's going on)? Benwing2 (talk) 21:19, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The comment says it - it's for the new heading HTML generated by Parsoid. &mdash; S URJECTION / T / C / L / 21:50, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Surjection Can you be more specific as to why this is needed (I don't know Parsoid very well or CSS) and whether it's causing the issue that User:Einstein2 reported? Just saying "Parsoid" doesn't explain in specific what all the CSS is doing. Benwing2 (talk) 21:57, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Parsoid changes the HTML that is generated for headings, and the old rule did not match them anymore. The actual reason the extra line shows up is because, for some reason, now uses a different class when there are exactly two links. &mdash; S URJECTION  / T / C / L / 23:40, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you. That different class used when there are two items dates back to 2013 and doesn't seem to do anything, so I removed it and it seems to have fixed the issue. Benwing2 (talk) 23:56, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * (Are the changes to headers why things like aWa that 'hook' onto headers stopped working?) - -sche (discuss) 00:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * This may well be the case, as they seem to have happened around the same time. But someone who knows JavaScript needs to look into the code. Benwing2 (talk) 00:54, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Template:R:en:DAFN calling for non existent quote tracking templates
noticed this, not sure what's causing it. Akaibu (talk) 22:48, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * What's the problem? It seems fine in the places where it's properly used. It's intended principally for English surname entries. DCDuring (talk) 23:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * go to edit mode on a page that uses it, then page options, then "templates used" you should see a bunch of redlinks to Tracking/quote/param/publisher and what not Akaibu (talk) 23:16, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I believe we've been told it's a feature. not a bug. DCDuring (talk) 23:35, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Akaibu please see Tracking for more info. In short, you are free to ignore these tracking templates. This, that and the other (talk) 10:39, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Courtesy link: R:en:DAFN —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:24, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Sorting sufflamen correctly in Category:Latin terms prefixed with sub-
As I said in June, adding "af|la|sub-|t1=under-|sort=flamen" seems to do nothing, so I'm not sure how to get it to sort in this category with other prefixed words built on f-initial roots. Urszag (talk) 05:59, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Should be fixed. Benwing2 (talk) 21:15, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Unsupported title
Hello, in Rhymes:Swedish/ʉːt one of the words wasn't isn't linked to correctly, namely Q:t/q:t. The problem is that it linked to wikiquote, see t/t. I added unsupported but I think the module also needs updating since now there is a module error. I don't dare to do it myself so I'd appreciate if someone could do it. Jonteemil (talk) 14:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * : I figured out how to do it by adding the entries to Module:unsupported titles/data, so it's working now. The workaround to hard-code links would be, which gives: Q:t. Chuck Entz (talk) 16:30, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Chuck Entz @Jonteemil The solution is to do this: sv, where \ "escapes" the colon so that it's treated as a literal colon, not a prefix separator. This also has the advantage of generating the correct pagename, which the old template can't do; this should work in any link template, too. unsupported is only still used for a tiny handful of links where escaping doesn't work (page names which resemble HTML tags), and will eventually be deleted once those issues have been resolved. Theknightwho (talk) 22:20, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the knowledge! Jonteemil (talk) 22:56, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Template:gem-decl-noun
The dative singular for is showing i-mutation where there should not be any. Leasnam (talk) 22:23, 8 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I believe this is caused by Module:gem-pronunc (called by Module:gem-decl-noun), where any appearance of "i/ī/į/ǐ/j" in the next syllable causes this syllable to replace "e" by "i". I can fix this by accounting for diphthongs, but for the avoidance of doubt, could you specify which diphthongs should trigger i-mutation? Wikipedia recognises the diphthongs "au, ai, eu, iu, ōu, ōi". (For my curiosity it would be nice if you could also provide a soruce.) --kc_kennylau (talk) 14:00, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The only diphthong that might potentially trigger i-mutation would be iu (but this is uncommon since iu is itself a triggered diphthong), otherwise none of the others above would. Leasnam (talk) 14:59, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Gadget-column-hacks.css
Seems to be unnecessary in 2024 (tested on Firefox 126.0.1). . Ioaxxere (talk) 17:26, 9 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I removed it. The templates concerned seem to be using a completely different CSS approach now. This, that and the other (talk) 23:37, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Gadget-SpecialSearch
Seems to be nonfunctional (tested on Firefox 126.0.1, Chrome 126.0.6478.127, Edge 126.0.2592.87). (I might add that this doesn't seem like a very useful gadget in the first place...) Ioaxxere (talk) 17:49, 9 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Yes, it only manages to redirect you to a generic Google/Bing/Yahoo search page. Your actual search query gets lost.
 * Looking at the JS, it seems to be conflicting with some (new?) code added on the MediaWiki side to the Special:Search form.
 * I'm not really sure why we have this gadget either. I imagine it dates from an era when the built-in MediaWiki search engine was primitive and inferior to Google etc. (The code almost certainly pre-dates the Gadgets system so tracing this back would involve some wikiarchaeology.) Might be worth posting at BP about getting rid of it. This, that and the other (talk) 23:31, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:en:Neighborhoods... creates by U.S. state but not by U.S. city
Shouldn't we also have "Category:en:Neighborhoods in Los Angeles", "Category:en:Neighborhoods in New York City", etc...? Purplebackpack89 12:38, 11 July 2024 (UTC)


 * @Purplebackpack89 Yes we should IMO. Something to add to the Module:place code when I have a chance ... Benwing2 (talk) 21:26, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

AjaxEdit gadget makes it hard to locate changes on long pages, like discussion pages
Using AjaxEdit means that Watchlist, Revision history, etc. don't show heading information. That means that specific changes can be hard to locate on long pages, like discussion pages. Can the behavior of the gadget be altered so that using it is just like normal editing of page sections? DCDuring (talk) 14:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Tried to change Proto-Slavic (praxolditi) to (proxolditi), because I made a mistake.
Read title. Ejwarburton11 (talk) 07:56, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

This bot needs some work.
No really, like when I tried to add another grease pit discussion, I got a "this is harmful" message. No I'm not. Ejwarburton11 (talk) 08:47, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Can you give us any context at all here? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:00, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Tried to add ==Russian== on one, for example. Ejwarburton11 (talk) 09:01, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * On one... what? You tried to add a second-level subheading that reads "Russian" on a Grease Pit discussion? Why would you do that? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Context: not a Grease Pit discussion, on prohladit' (been solved, by the way.) Ejwarburton11 (talk) 09:10, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Then made a Grease Pit discussion discussing that, I got a "this is harmful" message. Ejwarburton11 (talk) 09:14, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It is so hard to understand what you mean, as there is no entry for prohladit or prohladit'. If you have an issue, please be clear about what it is like "I went to page and tried to do thing but got bad response ". —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:42, 15 July 2024 (UTC)


 * The user has been blocked, but the edits the user tried to make, which were stopped by abuse filters, are visible in the abuse log. (This is not to say the edits were or were not abusive; that's just what the filters and the log are called because that's what they aim to filter out and log.) - -sche (discuss) 15:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Anyone interested in a cognate-tree displayer built atop wiktionary?
I've been working on this: http://radix.ink/word/lang:en/cling. It's very much unfinished and a work in progress. I'd greatly appreciate help, if anyone's interested. T039mwftulnm0l (talk) 22:29, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * this is very impressive stuff! I know is interested in etymology-related technicalities; I suspect you would see eye-to-eye when it comes to the from template for instance.. This, that and the other (talk) 07:44, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Category error
I recently created a category and got warning that it is some error in it because it is not added in some module. Searching further, I found a whole bunch of same errors in Category:Categories that are not defined in the category tree. How can I fix all of them? It doesn't look like some glitch, but there are many such lists. Is it bad? Tollef Salemann (talk) 18:59, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * P.S. There you find also some "Nynorsk stem nouns" categories created by @Eiliv which I find very useful to develop ASAP. Tollef Salemann (talk) 19:03, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Tollef Salemann These need to be fixed one by one by modifying the appropriate modules. In general it's best to always preview a page using auto cat before saving, to make sure you don't get this error; otherwise it just makes for more work for the people who clean up this category. Benwing2 (talk) 07:48, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * But how to clean up it? Which exactly module should i search? Tollef Salemann (talk) 19:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Tollef Salemann Well ... it's a bit tricky, you have to first make sure it would be a good idea to add the category, and then you have to add it to the correct module, which depends on what type of category. There are several topic cat modules for categories of the form 'en:Foo' and lang-specific poscat categories for things like 'Norwegian Nynorsk stem nouns' that are specific to that particular language as well as overall poscat categories for things like 'English foo bars' that apply to several languages. What particular category are you wanting to add? Benwing2 (talk) 20:22, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Activating a gadget
I added the auto-glossary gadget to MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition a few hours ago. It appears in the preferences menu but it doesn't seem to be working. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Ioaxxere (talk) 19:42, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Evident issue with Japanese template
See Feedback. This may be known to editors who work on CJK languages, but in case it's not, I'm raising it here for visibility. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 13:09, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I thought this was fixed. I'll have a look today. Theknightwho (talk) 13:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Domo arigato. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 13:20, 20 July 2024 (UTC)