Wiktionary:Information desk/2019/December

Hieroglyphics hain't HTML
After dinner discussions, you know?

Starting from Category:English terms derived from Egyptian I kept encountering glitches on mobile views of etymologies. Strange vertical spacing and missing content, with examples
 * sphinx is okay, then mobile view is borken
 * uraeus is okay, then mobile view

But then something else from the list like ammonia is fine on mobile because it doesn't attempt hieroglyphics.

sphinx has and uraeus has , whereas ammonia lacks any use of  produces unfortunate effects under mobile.

So, :  , I can find the wavy line as "U+13216: EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH N035" and the lined circle as "U+1340D: EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH AA001" aka &amp;#x13216; &amp;#x1340D; , and thus:
 * &#x13216; &#x1340D;
 * At least these appear under Chrome on a Win10 box. Perhaps part of the review of hiero revamp could be whether general support has advanced enough that hieroglyphic display can depend (rely is not the right word) on OS-hosted Unicode fonts? Thus hosting own images could be done away with?
 * Though in comparing mw:Extension:WikiHiero/Syntax with Egyptian_Hieroglyphs_(Unicode_block) I am seeing extras under Unicode but then possible missing items seen in the extension's list. It may be that scholarship has advanced beyond the point that produced the older list used by the extension? (whoa, 2004?) I'd tend towards assuming the Unicode list was agreed upon only after some rigor. (2009) And continued development in Unicode (2016) (More Unicode Egyptian Hieroglyph Format Controls (2019) )
 * Oh blech. I suppose fixing what we've got is first. Finding out if better implementations are possible is later. Shenme (talk) 06:10, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Pronunciation of μαγειρική
The pronunciation of Modern is given as, added by a native Greek speaker. But shouldn’t that be ? BTW, I’m not a big fan of giving narrow transcriptions unless there is a specific reason, such as to distinguish dialects or to draw attention to an irregular phenomenon. --Lambiam 22:52, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

mapuchizar conjugation
Can anyone help me fix the conjugation for this one? I discovered this nugget my español-Mapudungun dictionary.Ndołkah (talk) 11:01, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
 * What did you have in mind? I'm pretty decent at Spanish but I've never encountered this verb before: it seems pretty straightforward and correct as a regular verb. I do see it used on a quick Internet search but it's not in the RAE's dictionary. Are you requesting that someone help you make entries for all the conjugations? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:45, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I think it means “to ‘mapuchify’ ”, that is, “to make ”, a neologism that may be regional – almost all hits are from Chilean sources. --Lambiam 00:33, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily for all the conjugations, that's not essential for a Spanish dictionary if you know what the endings mean, I meant the blow out chart of the conjugations oh and I didn't put in a definition but someone was bold and came out with a great one how grandNdołkah (talk) 00:19, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Purpose and usage of the "Descendants" section
First, a bit of context. Having encountered the word, I promptly came to Wiktionary. Then from a bit of surfing around here I discovered that both it and butter trace back to, the latter by way of. Doubting that I am the only person on Earth who would find these relationships interesting, I thought about how to document them.

The good news is that the descendancy of butter from βούτῡρον is already documented in the latter's entry. But I feel that when users are reading about τυρός itself, they would likely be interested in its being an ancestor—though indirect—of butter. After all, exactly that connection, in the temporally reversed direction, shows up under the etymology of butter, and I don't see that the retrospective (pedigree) explanation is any more important or interesting than the prospective (progeny) presentation of that exact same information.

Of course, everything I've said about τυρός with respect to butter applies equally to. And that brings me to my next question: is it considered kosher in Wiktionary to list among a word's descendants not only simple words, but also compounds? Because what I'd like to do is highlight the relationship to butter in the entries for βοῦς and τυρός, and the relationship to turophile at least in the entry for τυρός (it's already documented in Category:English_words_suffixed_with_-phile). And, apart from my previous question about the intermediate word βούτῡρον, those relationships are perfectly analogous to the relationship to that is currently reported in the entry for.

How to proceed? Or, stated differently, Mother may I?—PaulTanenbaum (talk)


 * No, it isn’t kosher. If one were to tolerate it, soon it would be with any derived term and we would have 🇨🇬 as descendant under the Latin prefix, or something similar. Fay Freak (talk) 21:10, 19 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Well, I guess your reply does get to my question about butter. But not to my proposed pointer from τυρός to turophile, unless you think someone should police up what would have to be the faux pas over at μέρος. And by the way, is there anything in a style guide or the like that captures your sense of the treyf (from :-) )? I never did find it, which is why I posted here.—PaulTanenbaum (talk) 22:31, 19 December 2019 (UTC)


 * It hurts my sensibilities; the term should be tyrophile, which is how Oxford Reference spells it, just like, and .  --Lambiam 01:07, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

north Andean deer
How do I make it singular and plural?Ndołkah (talk) 00:17, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 01:58, 21 December 2019 (UTC)


 * For future reference: just enter the plural of the term as the first (and only) parameter of en-noun. In this case it is identical to the term. --Lambiam 02:02, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Translingual derived or descended?
Would a translingual scientific name be considered a derived or descended term of the New Latin components? For example, see araucanus. I wasn't sure which section title to use. -Mike (talk) 00:33, 21 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Derived terms are supposed to be terms in the same language that are morphological derivatives, so this is not applicable in this context. Descendants are terms in other languages that have borrowed or inherited the term. If D is listed as a descendant of E, then the etymology of D should show E as a (possibly partial) ancestor. --Lambiam 01:53, 21 December 2019 (UTC)


 * To be clear, "derived terms" is not consistently used throughout Wiktionary. You're right if you're talking about the L3 section (and therefore for Mike's question), but not if you're talking about the use of . Which reminds me that we could use a new template for that... —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 01:56, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Hiding languages on Wiktionary pages
Is there a way of hiding certain languages or at least collapse them for better overview? Even better, is there a way to hide/collapse all but some selected languages? It would make navigation a lot easier. Sometimes even the navigation toolbox is utterly cluttered and it takes some time to get to the right language. --Fytcha (talk) 16:45, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Request for edit to protected page Wiktionary:Entry_layout
Hi, I would like to request that the line:

be added to the top of the section Entry_layout. Mihia (talk) 17:48, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

For hábeas corpus
How do I make it so it shows that it is singular only?Ndołkah (talk) 07:31, 23 December 2019 (UTC)


 * According to the RAE the plural is the same as the singular, which is different from being singular only. I do find uses of los hábeas corpus and los habeas corpus without accent – according to the the spelling with an accent was used until 2010, but I don’t know what this statement is based on and have not further investigated it.  --Lambiam 08:22, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Arabic Script for Esperanto (Araba Skripto/ارابا سکریپٹو)
Hey can we work upon an Arabic script for Esperanto
 * We can if Esperanto is written with that script already, which I think it's not. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:45, 23 December 2019 (UTC)


 * This would be an undertaking outside the purview of Wiktionary. Perhaps some people who see this here may be interested, in which case they should by all means contact you to see what can be done, but it will not be a Wiktionary effort. --Lambiam 00:15, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Links to Hebrew Wikipedia
Hey all- I'm very familiar with how to use Template:wikipedia and Template:zh-wp to link to English and various Chinese Wikipedias. But how should I link to Hebrew Wikipedia? I used Template:wikipedia to link אלוהים  &יהוה  to Hebrew Wikipedia, but it looks really wonky. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 02:13, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅. Try checking the template documentation next time. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 02:27, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

How to create a list of synonyms (or antonyms)
Hi, guys. Merry Xmas.

I'd like to know how could I create a list of a synonyms vertically or horizontally with that formatting

#:

so that it looks like

Synonyms: 1. x (trad) 2. y (trad) 3. z (trad)

or

Synonyms: x (trad); y (trad); z (trad)

I tried a lot of ways and couldn't achieve that. In the vertical form, I got something but always with "synonym" in each line, which seems rather polluted. As for horizontal, I got nothing, with a lot of errors... Is it possible to do that with such specific formatting? Thanks in advance.

Cpt.Guapo (talk) 20:04, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
 * gives . — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 17:22, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot, my friend! That one did the trick! I wonder if there is a vertical version too... Cpt.Guapo (talk) 05:13, 27 December 2019 (UTC)