Wiktionary:Information desk/2019/September

== Please save the contents of this section (edit:within the nowiki tags) to User:Conrad.Bot, and in the spirit of wikipedia, please don't label as harmful (block all IP edits to) the whole category "Users touching other users' user pages and subpages". == (revised to add nowiki tags and hide the source in a comment) <!-- A bot, using pywiki framework that is run by User:Conrad.Irwin.

Tasks

 * (Approved) Link fixing for deleted/deletable redirects.
 * (With consensus) Uploading the index files, see User:Conrad.Bot/Indexing.
 * (Without explicit approval) Replacing to . (Will only work on pages that start with   and contain no other occurrences of   to avoid propagating formatting errors) A bad idea...

=Anagrams= (Unapproved) Adding and updating ==Anagrams== sections in:
 * English
 * French
 * request your language here

=Source Code=
 * The code, per WT:Anagrams was (as of 10 November 2011) at http://jelzo.com/stuff/anagrams.tar.gz(dead link) and the approach taken was described at the time by the author as a multi-pass one, requiring a wiktionary dump and the corresponding definition list (from http://toolserver.org/~enwikt/definitions/) file. The newer description included into the Indexing section below is better, an old, now-wrong high-level one was: The passes, vaguely:
 * Work out what anagrams should be present by looking at the definitions lists (find_expected.py)
 * Work out which anagrams are already present, by looking at the dump (find_existing.py)
 * Work out the delta (merge.py)
 * Upload the changes (upload.py)
 * It was supposed to have some clever stuff to ensure that if someone deleted an anagram from a page, it didn't re-add it; but the author doesn't think that ever actually worked.
 * More current source code can be found at ___________.


 * Old language specifics:
 * Ignore anything containing a number, or which looks like a prefix, suffix or interfix '(^-|- -|[0-9]|-$)', or which only has "" definitions.
 * normal-form is the lower-case word, remove all diacritics, remove all non-letters.
 * The base anagram is formed from sorting the normal-form's letters into order, anything that has the same base anagram, but a different normal-form is considered an anagram.

=Indexing=
 * Horribly out of date now...

=Old Stuff=

Wiktionary: cross-namespace redirects
Will replace all links to these except for:

Links to redirects to Help Pages

 * Help > Help:Contents
 * FAQ > Help:FAQ
 * How to edit a page > Help:How to edit a page
 * How to start a page > Help:Starting a new page
 * How to check translations > Help:How to check translations

as they are widely known and linked to.

Hungarian Indexes
Need to move these first.

Links to redirects to Special pages

 * Beer parlour archive/July 06 : Low water mark > Special:Recentchanges/hidepatrolled
 * Request pages/Recent changes/2007-01-08 : Low water mark > Special:Recentchanges/hidepatrolled
 * Requests for deletion/Archives/2008/01 : Low water mark > Special:Recentchanges/hidepatrolled
 * Wiktionary talk:Main Page/Redesign 2006 : Main Page/Redesign > Special:Allpages/Wiktionary:Main Page/Redesign
 * Beer parlour archive/February 06 : Main Page/Redesign > Special:Allpages/Wiktionary:Main Page/Redesign
 * Request pages/Recent changes/2007-01-08 : Main Page/Redesign > Special:Allpages/Wiktionary:Main Page/Redesign
 * MediaWiki custom messages : MediaWiki namespace > Special:Allmessages
 * Tutorial (Namespaces) : MediaWiki namespace > Special:Allmessages

Wont touch

 * User:Robert Ullmann/Chinese indexes

Totals
Before pruning: 15839

After pruning: 7748 links to fix (on 7343 pages). -->


 * Why would you want to mess with a bot that hasn't made an edit in 6 years, and that was run by someone who isn't very active around here any more? Why would we want someone doing that who's made exactly one dictionary edit and apparently has no clue about this bot, our bot policies, or our policies in general?
 * To be blunt, if the abuse filter hadn't stopped you, I would have reverted these changes on the spot. There's a reason that filter exists, and you have yet to give us any reason why we should help you get around it. Chuck Entz (talk) 22:18, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

New editors’ contribs not working anymore
Am I the only one who can't use New editors’ contribs anymore? Regardless what I type in there, I get no results. It worked fine the other day.--Robbie SWE (talk) 08:33, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I did not know such an option existed. Is it documented? Anyway, this seems more an issue for the grease pit. --Lambiam 23:39, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * It's one of those "special pages", so not sure if it's documented. I'll move this discussion to the Grease Pit. --Robbie SWE (talk) 09:16, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * See meta:Tech/News/2019/34. It was disabled "because of performance reasons". The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 01:38, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, heard about that late last night. It's really perplexing that such a drastic change was made without informing or consulting the users who actually depend on that tool to patrol new editors' contributions. Relying solely on RC just doesn't cut it for me I'm afraid, but I guess I'll have to adapt. --Robbie SWE (talk) 17:20, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Have you tried enabling the "Newcomers" and "Learners" filters in Special:RecentChanges? They seem the closest thing to the filter used by the "newbie contributions" feature. — Eru·tuon 17:28, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * , that's the thing — how exactly do I do that? I've typed "newcomers" and "learners" in the "Tag filter" box and I get zilch. --Robbie SWE (talk) 17:45, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Ahh, it sounds like you have the non-JavaScript version. If you uncheck "Use non-JavaScript interface" in the "Recent changes" tab of Special:Preferences, Special:RecentChanges will have an "Active filters" box and below it an input box where you can type in and select "Newcomers" and "Learners" filters. — Eru·tuon 19:11, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Another workaround is to go through the user creation logs and look for "contribs" bluelinks. Chuck Entz (talk) 21:30, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Erutuon! You were right, I had "Use non-JavaScript interface" checked. It works now! I had to rely on Chuck Entz's workaround yesterday, but I sure miss the old "New editors’ contribs" function. Oh well, times they are a-changin'. --Robbie SWE (talk) 08:33, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

new reference templates
Hello, I was hoping someone could explain to me how new reference templates are added? I have two main points that I would like to understand... 1. what the actual code does (and whether it is written in lua, javascript etc...) and 2. what the process is (if any) of getting the new reference material approved. I am hoping to add a reference template from U-Chicago's Digital Dictionaries of South Asia. Thank you! Hk5183 (talk) 20:55, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * You will find the reference templates in Category:Reference templates or one of its many subcategories. It is a mixed bunch. If the url to be linked to can be formed in a straightforward way by substituting the entry (usually the page name) in a string with perhaps the help of a few magic words and parser functions (if enabled here), a simple template will do. For an example, see R:Platts. A generic template that can be specialized for this approach is R:Reference-meta. Other templates invoke a module, written in Lua. For example, template R:Bailly invokes Module:R:Bailly. If you create a new template or module, please also supply the documentation. --Lambiam 23:24, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! your help is appreciated!Hk5183 (talk) 20:33, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Unable to see quotations
On all pages I don't see the quotes that are included on the page even though I see them in the source code. I am assuming there is some preference or something that I changed to make this the case but cannot seem to find it. If some one could point me in the direction of the option that allows to see quotes on pages again that would be greatly appreciated. The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 01:47, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * You should be able to see this on the left-hand "tools" menu. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:35, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I see the tools menu but am confused what I am supposed to see in it and how it relates to my problem. &mdash;The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 16:47, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry if I was obscure: there should be an option to "Show quotations" (also "Show declensions", etc.) and it's under "Visibility" which should be immediately below "Tools". —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:24, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I have found it, thank you very much! &mdash;The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 17:32, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * On the pages with the invisible quotations, do you see a Visibility menu in the sidebar with "Show quotations" in it? — Eru·tuon 16:55, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Church Slavonic
What is the language code for "Church Slavonic"? A new user is using "cu", which is the code for "Old Church Slavonic" - is that acceptable? SemperBlotto (talk) 09:48, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I believe the discussion about this is being held at Beer parlour/2019/September — Mnemosientje (t · c) 14:48, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Fixing German words
Hello!

I am currently using the wiktionary to extract German words and group them by declension. In the process of doing so, I noticed that a few "declension groupings" do not start with the same letter.

I am fixing the obviously wrong cases, but as I do not speak German, feel free to review/edit/rollback my contributions as you wish. :)

I already did that with Dutch words and it went fine, but I apologize if some of them might be wrong. That said, the list is not big.

Thanks! Jojva (talk) 13:06, 16 September 2019 (UTC)


 * They all seem fine to me. Keep up the good work. --Lambiam 21:49, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Wiktionary etymology telegram bot
For users of Telegram, there is now @WikimologyBot (https://t.me/WikimologyBot). Send it a word in any language and get contents of the etymology field for that word from the English version of Wiktionary.
 * Nice, but it should not strip tables like in the etymology section of . Also, while it does separate language sections and gives all languages there are entries in on a page, it does not does not distinguish etymology sections. Perhaps it should fetch the meanings too if it already accesses the pages anyway. Fay Freak (talk) 14:37, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Reference format (affero)
I recently edited affero to provide more complete information (author, title, JSTOR number) to a reference. I used cite-journal, but I see that the rendered text is in a very different formatting, even apart from the missing information, than what was there before (it used to lead with the year, for example), I'm not certain I did it correctly.

I'm only an occasional editor here, much more active on English Wikipedia. Can someone check me on it? TJRC (talk) 00:27, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 * This looks fine to me: there's a preference here to start usage examples with dates (e.g. Orwellian) The way that you've inserted it without tags and a final tag is not how I would have done it but that's not necessarily a problem. I think a better citation would be to include some dialogue that uses the word, cite it, and then use the tags I mentioned, again Orwellian has examples of what I mean. Either way, this is a great addition on a very obscure language. Thanks. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:40, 21 September 2019 (UTC)


 * The quotation templates, meant for examples of actual use, start with the date. The citation templates  , meant for references, start with the author. As this is a reference (with a mention, not a use), it is fine as is.  --Lambiam 12:37, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Orthographic differences between Canadian and European French?
I know that they’re very similar but I am wondering if there are (or were) at least a few exceptions. — (((Romanophile))) ♞ (contributions) 00:29, 28 September 2019 (UTC)


 * The Wikipedia article  states that the spelling differences are “sporadic” – unlike the grammatical differences, which are numerous. Two examples are given. (1) The  recommends the spelling  for what is in France . (2) In France the adjective  is invariable, but has regular feminine and plural forms in Quebec French according to official recommendations. (Our entry lists these forms without reservations. The French Wiktionary mentions both options without tying this to a regiolect.)  --Lambiam 18:53, 28 September 2019 (UTC)