Wiktionary:Requests for verification/CJK

__NEWSECTIONLINK__ This page is for entries in Chinese, Japanese, Korean or any other language using an East Asian script. For English entries, see Requests for verification/English. For entries in other non-English languages, see Requests for verification/Non-English.

= February 2018 =

復審
Seems to be the wrong traditional form of 複審. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 01:26, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * There're many hits in Google Books.--Zcreator (talk) 01:44, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * True. Do you think there are any differences between 復審 and 複審 in terms of meaning? (In Cantonese, they would be pronounced differently.) — justin(r)leung { (t...) 06:55, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * That is the correct form, and 複審 is a wrong form, which must be verified ([//www.google.com/search?q=%22%E5%88%9D%E5%AF%A9%22+%22%E5%BE%A9%E5%AF%A9%22], [//www.google.com/search?q=%22%E5%96%AE%E5%AF%A9%22+%22%E8%A4%87%E5%AF%A9%22]). — T AKASUGI Shinji (talk) 00:03, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
 * TAKASUGI Shinji: (This is a really late response.) I'm not sure what you're basing your claim on. Guoyu Cidian only has 複審. It seems like both 復審 and 複審 are valid from the google hits, but there might be some differences in meaning. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 22:27, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm wondering if you're familiar with this term's usage in law, particularly in Taiwan. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 07:59, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * While I'm not the most familiar with Taiwanese law, a search on Chinese Wikisource revealed a number of legal documents using this form:
 * Article 121, Execution of Penalty in Prisons Act
 * Chapter 3 Heading, Protection of Civil Servant Act
 * Enclosed Judgment of the Supreme Administrative Court, Judicial Yuan Interpretation No. 611
 * Regards.廣九直通車 (talk) 10:12, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Enclosed Judgment of the Supreme Administrative Court, Judicial Yuan Interpretation No. 611
 * Regards.廣九直通車 (talk) 10:12, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Regards.廣九直通車 (talk) 10:12, 7 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the quotes. I looked at the English translations of some of these, and it seems like it refers to "deliberation" (Protection of Civil Servant Act) or "petition" (Execution of Penalty in Prisons Act). Are these the same thing, and how do these correspond to our current definition of "to review a legal case; to retry a case"? — justin(r)leung { (t...) 17:00, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I wonder if you'd be able to help here. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 16:54, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * what are you asking me? — Sgconlaw (talk) 17:11, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The question above about "deliberation" and "petition". — justin(r)leung { (t...) 18:04, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid my Mandarin isn't good enough to help. But for what it's worth, I used Google Translate on the passages quoted above, and they seem to be applying sense 2 of 復審 ("to review a legal case; to retry a case"). I have no idea if this is different from 複審, though. — Sgconlaw (talk) 18:06, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I should've linked to the English translations.
 * 監獄行刑法 Prison Act, Article 121: Where an inmate disagrees with the decision to cancel parole in the preceding paragraph or a decision to deny parole, he/she may file a petition to the Ministry of Justice within the ten (10) days starting from the next day following the delivery of decision to the inmate.
 * 公務人員保障法 Civil Service Protection Act, Article 25: 公務人員對於服務機關或人事主管機關（以下均簡稱原處分機關）所為之行政處分，認為違法或顯然不當，致損害其權利或利益者，得依本法提起復審. A civil servant may petition for deliberation pursuant to this Act against an administrative action, taken by the agency he/she serves or the Personnel Management Authority(hereinafter referred to as "the original action agency"), which, he/she thinks unlawful or obviously illegitimate and causes the infringement of his/her rights or interests.
 * Do these sound like it's the same as "to review a legal case; to retry a case"? — justin(r)leung { (t...) 18:41, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The literal translation provided by Google Translate seems to indicate a request for a legal case to be reviewed. Petition is too broad; that just refers to a request in general. — Sgconlaw (talk) 20:27, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

= April 2020 =

中共病毒
Google News results are exclusively from Falun Gong-related sources (soundofhope, epochtimes, ntdtv). Also probably missing a context label regarding connotation? —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 08:28, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * For Chinese, I've added four quotes at Citations:中共病毒. Two are from Epoch Times-related media. The earliest we have is from 陳泱潮, who does not seem to be affiliated with Falun Gong, and another is from, who isn't known to be affiliated with Falun Gong either. 中共病毒 should be cited. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 19:00, 19 June 2021 (UTC)


 * RFV passed for 中共病毒. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 01:47, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

中共肺炎#Chinese, #Japanese
Ditto. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 08:31, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The terms were coined, likely partly in condemnation of the Chinese Communist Party's cover-up of the epidemic in Wuhan. --Apisite (talk) 08:39, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * If all cites are coming from Falun Gong-related sources as suggested by Suzukaze-c, we probably shouldn't consider them independent sources. We need to look outside of Falun Gong sources. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 21:53, 11 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Why? There's 40,000 to millions of Falun Gong followers out there; that's more than speakers of many languages we document here. If three leftist German newspapers used a term, we wouldn't consider them not independent sources.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:26, 23 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Maybe I was mistaken about the extent of association of these media outlets to a single organization. I'm not 100% sure how the organization of Falun Gong practitioners works. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 23:39, 23 September 2020 (UTC)


 * It seems like it can be traced back to even earlier sources that use 中共病毒 not to refer to COVID-19, but other viruses that have been associated with China, like H5N1 (I think), as in this article. But again, it comes from Epoch Times. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 20:44, 11 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I put four instances in Japanese at Citations:中共肺炎. One is from Epoch Times, one from Nico Nico and cited to Epoch Times, but one is in Mainichi Shimbun (quoting a Japanese politician), and one on a surfing blog. They don't span more than one year, but they seem to be more or less independent (discounting the two Epoch-sourced quotes). Cnilep (talk) 08:05, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I added another from this past week, so now they span nearly one year (about a week short). It's from 'G-News'; I don't know if that is Falun Gong-related, but the story certainly seems anti-PRC. I've also added "sometimes offensive" to the entry, as the usage is exclusionary and in at least one case has been called "hate speech". Cnilep (talk) 01:14, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
 * are you sure the quotes you added are from durably archived sources? — justin(r)leung { (t...) 22:22, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't know who publishes the web pages or what their archiving policies are, but they include links. You can check them out if you have any doubt. (The exception is Mainichi Shimbun, which is a national newspaper and is durably archived in libraries and databases.) Cnilep (talk) 00:45, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I just saw your reply now. I don't think web pages are generally considered durably archived. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 14:43, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Um, OK. It's slightly annoying that some editors suggest web pages are not acceptable while other insist that only materials available online are acceptable, but such is the nature of a large group project, I suppose. Cnilep (talk) 23:01, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Epoch Times is archived in Lexis/Nexis, so that and Mainichi Shimbun make two. I'll look for another. Cnilep (talk) 23:09, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I don't think only materials available online are acceptable, just preferred (according to how I am reading WT:ATTEST). I don't think web pages are acceptable unless they are somehow durably archived. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 23:15, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Japan Business Press appears to self-archive (their members page says "more than 30,000 archived articles over the 10 years since the first issue"), but is not in Lexis/Nexis or Proquest. If that's acceptable, it's the third archived (but not easily accessible) attestation. Cnilep (talk) 03:40, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Actually, the durably archived ones currently there are only from 2020, but Epoch Times continues to use the phrase. Cnilep (talk) 03:47, 8 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Cited for 中共肺炎#Chinese. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 16:20, 8 November 2021 (UTC)


 * RFV passed for 中共肺炎#Chinese. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 00:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Japanese: "中共肺炎" "コロナ" -"大紀元時報" -"大紀元" remains barren. Perhaps online-sources (WT:ATTEST) can help at this point, but Twitter search top results being from 2020 and 2021 are not promising. —Fish bowl (talk) 21:39, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Latest results in Twitter "live" search: Dec 2022, Sep 2022, June 2022. —Fish bowl (talk) 02:31, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

消息
Rfv-sense: omen. Added by an anon IP. ---&#62; Tooironic (talk) 22:18, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I have also rfv-sensed the other definitions added by said IP: essence. Mechanism. Hinge; crux. These are not in any dictionaries I have access to, and are certainly not used in the vernacular. ---&#62; Tooironic (talk) 22:19, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * @Tooironic: These seem to be from Hanyu Da Cidian. I think "omen" = "征兆，端倪", "essence" = "奥妙；真谛；底细", "mechanism" = "机关，发动机械装置的枢机", and "hinge; crux" = "引申指起决定性作用的事物"? I think the definitions could definitely be refined. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 21:50, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Modified "omen" as "sign; clue" and "mechanism" as "hidden mechanical device that moves other parts of the contraption when touched". These two senses are cited. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 20:30, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * RFV passed for "omen" > "sign; clue" and "mechanism" > "hidden mechanical device that moves other parts of the contraption when touched". The other senses still need verification. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 02:06, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

= June 2020 =

兔 (Chinese, Etymology 2)
The reading and definition looks suspiciously like a ghost entry inherited from earlier lexicographers. The source seems to be the 《觀象玩占》, an astrology book attributed to. A passage from the book reads 辰星…一曰免星 link, where the character 免 could have been a misprint of something including or. The 《古今圖書集成》, quoting from the passage, corrects this character as link to the page. 《集韻》 has an entry 毚兔【辰星別名，或省】 link to page, which in the Jiyun formula seems to say these two characters 毚 and 兔 were considered variants to each other without specifying the linguistic context or referring to attestable literature. Overall the textual quality of these appearances has been subpar, and the reading, especially the tonal value in modern Mandarin, is not well-supported.

--Frigoris (talk) 15:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I just got around to reply. Hanyu Da Zidian quotes Shiji for this: 《史記·天官書》：“兔過太白. ”司馬貞索隱：“《廣雅》云：‘辰星謂之兔星. ’則辰星之別名兔. 或作毚也. ”張守節正義：“《漢書》云：‘辰星過太白，閒可械劍. ’明《廣雅》是也. ” — justin(r)leung { (t...) 17:07, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The Shiji passage should be enough for verification. However, it seems that the 欽定四庫全書, 摛藻堂四庫全書薈要, 益雅堂叢書 and 古今逸史 versions of 廣雅 all read "辰星謂之...免星", which is different from what 司馬貞 quotes. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 17:29, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Just checked the different versions of Shiji, and it seems like the 欽定四庫全書, 汲古閣毛氏, 古香齋袖珍十種, 北京大學圖書館, 摛藻堂四庫全書薈要, 乾隆御覽四庫全書薈要, 哈佛燕京圖書館 (1), 哈佛燕京圖書館 (2) and 武英殿二十四史 editions all have 免. I wonder why modern editions of Shiji have 兔. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 18:38, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * thank you very much for the research. If you ask me, I can only say "textual corruption", which is a huge problem with the Shiji in general. I checked the (Semi-)Critical Edition by Gu Jiegang et al. which reads 毚 in the passage quoting the lost text of Huangfu Mi, and 免 in the main text. OTOH, the 《廣雅》 passage as quoted in the Shiji CE reads 兔, but the 《廣雅》 was a secondary source considerably later than the Shiji, and its own textual history may just be as bewildering. For example, this passage from the purported Ming-era edition (i.e. same as the 古今逸史 edition you quoted above) clearly reads 免. I haven't got the time to dig into the critical edition of 《廣雅疏義》, which you can read here. --Frigoris (talk) 19:35, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

= August 2020 =

哉
Rfv-sense: grammatical particle for perfective aspect (in Wu language). The quotation does not seem to match the sense: the translation given there is an imperative sentence. --Frigoris (talk) 14:09, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 蘇州方言詞典 defines it as “句末助詞，表示變化或新情况，相當于北京話句末助詞‘了’” and lists these examples: “吾吃仔飯～｜大家來吧，吃飯～｜落雨～｜天要好～｜再等等，俚馬上來～｜吾一走，屋裏嘸不人燒飯～｜俚葛閑話好相信，太陽要從西天出來～！”. 上海方言詞典 is a little more vague and defines it as “語氣詞，表時態，用於句子末尾，相當於北京話的‘了’” and lists these examples: “落雨～｜好～，𧟰吵～｜我明朝就要回屋裏去～｜儂再稍爲等一歇，我已經辣着鞋子～，就要好快～”. 上海话大词典 divides it into several definitions:
 * （旧）表示过去叙事情况下的语气：过一歇，伊又出去～｜后来我去睏～.
 * （旧）表示事件的现在状态：生病～｜钟停～｜苹果熟～｜三点钟～｜天晴～.
 * 与进行体助词“辣辣/辣海”一起，表示现在进行时态：伊辣辣读书～｜大楼辣海造～｜伊辣来～.
 * 与存继承助词“辣海/辣辣”一起表示现在完成时态：奶妈请辣海～｜我家生买辣辣～.
 * 与表示即行的“快”一起用时，表示现在即行时态：水开快～｜苹果熟快～.
 * The only definition that seems to fit "perfective aspect" is the 4th sense in 上海话大词典, but it seems to not be contributing to that meaning without 辣海/辣辣. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 19:12, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Justinrleung: thank you for checking the rfsense. So indeed the quotation was misleading by not matching the definition it appears under. This really can use some cleanup. --Frigoris (talk) 09:16, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 仔 in 吾吃仔飯哉 is grammatical particle for perfective aspect. If you want to find 哉 as grammatical particle for perfective aspect, see . EdwardAlexanderCrowley (talk) 16:47, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

= September 2020 =

水
Is Central Bai written in Chinese characters, and if so, is this the actual character used for ? — justin(r)leung { (t...) 02:41, 12 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Bai was written in chinese characters in a system called 僰文, using the characters to represent Bai words and written in a Bai syntax. As for the character itself, it appears in 山花碑/词记山花·咏苍洱境碑, which is written in 僰文, in the line：煴煊茶水（口㱔）𪢂呼 （translation into Chinese:热煮茶水相对饮)，due to the fact that it is written in a Bai syntax, it would be fair to assume it was probably composed in Bai, therefore be pronounced in Bai --Henry Wonh (talk) 01:59, 14 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Henry Wonh: Thanks! This looks like good evidence. I'll try to incorporate this into the entry. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 06:08, 14 September 2020 (UTC)


 * I've checked 赵橹's book and it seems like the text is slightly different from the blog post, and it's translated slightly differently as well. Either way, I've incorporated it into the entry, so this should be cited. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 06:35, 14 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Henry Wonh: Actually, one more question. Is it actually Central Bai we're dealing with, or some other variety of Bai? The poem was written many centuries ago, but I'm not sure how much we actually know about the Bai languages at that time. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 06:41, 14 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Justinrleung: Well, even though the stella was found in Dali city, it southern Bai territory, most sources claim central and southern Bai are mutually intelligible and are essentially dialects of each other, so I wouldn’t think it would pose a big problem, maybe merge the multiple Bai subsections?—-Henry Wonh (talk) 07:49, 14 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Henry Wonh: If it's in Southern Bai territory, one way we could go about this is to assume that it's Southern Bai, which would mean it's not cited for Central Bai. However, since this was written long ago, I wonder how much the Bai varieties have diverged then. Are there 僰文 texts from elsewhere? Merging Bai varieties is a bigger discussion to be had since it'll affect all other Bai entries we have. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 14:39, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Southern Bai 水
Also in these Bai varieties. Given the cited text above, we need to determine which variety the text belongs to. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 23:22, 19 October 2020 (UTC)


 * —Suzukaze-c (talk) 03:22, 21 October 2020 (UTC)


 * (Added in diff, by the user pinged above.) - -sche (discuss) 16:08, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

ニット
Rfv-sense "knit".

Rfv-sense "nit".

—Suzukaze-c (talk) 08:27, 20 September 2020 (UTC)


 * -- See various entries at Kotobank, Weblio. Seems to be a pretty well established loanword.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:32, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
 * -- Much less common. I do find this listed in my JA ↔ EN medical dictionary alongside alternative form, and also in a scientific jargon glossary with a separate sense of "candela per square meter".  Confirming this one in the wild is much more difficult, however.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:32, 22 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Checking knit (which I probably should have done beforehand: I actually wasn't aware that was usable as a noun, and believed the entry to be a suspicious mess created by equating etymology with definition, "ニット is from English knit and therefore means knit"), I see that it means (1 of 2 definitions) "knitter garment".
 * I also added a sense "knitwear" to ニット, so I suppose the RFV for this sense is essentially pointless, and I've removed the sense (maintaining that knit as a noun is not an intelligible definition) and the tag from ニット.
 * —Suzukaze-c (talk) 23:36, 22 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Regarding : I found several mentions of a product called ニットピッカー (nit-picker), either on shopping sites (which tend not to be durably archived) or mommy blogs such as this. I wonder if that is just transliteration of a product name originally in English, though. I also found a 2019 translation of Victorian Lady's Guide etc., which uses ruby in a way that suggests readers would not recognize the katakana word.
 * I associate that style of ruby in film subtitles, where they want to include the (transliterated) non-Japanese word and also a translation. Cnilep (talk) 05:01, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I associate that style of ruby in film subtitles, where they want to include the (transliterated) non-Japanese word and also a translation. Cnilep (talk) 05:01, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

ニット as “[nit]” is pretty common:, although specialists always write it as nit. — T AKASUGI Shinji (talk) 06:38, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

著落
Rfv-senses: "solution" and "result; outcome". Tagged by @Tooironic but not listed. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 22:58, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Seems like you added these in this . Dr. Eye Chinese English Bilingual Dictionary gives "the solution to a problem" as one of the definitions. "Solution" is also given in mdbg (not that this is necessarily right). "Result; outcome" might be mergeable with "place to settle", I think, which seems to be a little bit inaccurate without something like "result" since Guoyu Cidian and Liang'an Cidian define that sense with 歸宿 and 結果/結局. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 16:00, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

= January 2021 =

生蛋
RfV for Japanese entry: alternative spelling of セイタン. --沈澄心✉ 04:20, 31 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The JA WP article mentions this spelling in the section at グルテンミート, but I have not been able to confirm this in the wild (or at any rate, not online).  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:06, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

= February 2021 =

章
Rfv-sense: "order". Tagged by but not listed. RcAlex36 (talk) 16:20, 19 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The sense "chapter" may come from "rule" or "order, arrangement", but I can't find "order, arrangement" at the first 500 of zhwikisource. Any evidence before Han dynasty? EdwardAlexanderCrowley (talk) 04:32, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I found: "《孔子家语·曲礼子贡问》：“孔子曰：‘季氏之妇可谓知礼矣，爱而无私，上下有章. ’”", "交章论列" EdwardAlexanderCrowley (talk) 04:39, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * it seems the gloss "order" in the Definitions on that page refers to the usage as in . Although the 孔子家語 almost certainly belongs to the pseudepigrapha, we can use other examples to illustrate the sense. --Frigoris (talk) 07:45, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It's hard to say 章≠rule in 雜亂無章. 孔子家语 says "1973年河北定州八角廊出土了汉墓竹简中有《儒家者言》，内容与《家语》相近. ", you know, many ancient books suffers slanders. EdwardAlexanderCrowley (talk) 08:11, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Isn't the RFV about the definition item "order"? In particular what means here, since the word can mean quite different things in English. Currently the sense 3 refers to "rules", which the usex suggests reference to the formal regulations, constitutions, charters, etc. It seems to me that whoever first put the definition "order" here refers to the more abstract and possibly more informal sense of "the quality of being organized", which I think matches the usex I just added.
 * The 孔子家語 can match as many Han-era epigraphical texts as it may and is still considered pseudepigraphy, not because the text is "fake", but because the authorship very likely doesn't match how it has been claimed to be in the literary tradition. In fact there's little agreement about the true "authorship" if it has one. The text includes many passages that are paralleled in other classical works. If we can find them, it's preferable to use those more certain texts than the secondary literature. --Frigoris (talk) 08:22, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Let's read 送孟東野序, which is the origin of 雜亂無章. “其为言也，乱杂而无章” means 不講文法（no clear sense/logic of literature）, do you agree? EdwardAlexanderCrowley (talk) 09:31, 17 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes this sense should refer to being orderly, not to rules or distinctions, as this is how other dictionaries describe it (eg. as ); Kroll's Student's Dictionary writes "clearly and properly displayed, well-ordered". Other dictionaries all seem to reference 雜亂無章, but I think it is reasonable to say 章 has extended beyond "rule" here, for example Hanyu Da Cidian gives 無章 as 没有.
 * In some words, 章 seems close to meaning order, tied together with the sense "composition; structure". For example relates to the organization/arrangement of text, and  relates to a text being well-presented/composed.
 * Also, here's a line from on Wikipedia: 'Some believe that the name [章草], based on 章 meaning "orderly", arose because the script was a more orderly form of cursive'. It cites Qiu Xigui Chinese writing (文字學概要). Indeed that says '[章] means "orderliness, regulation"' (「章」字有條理，法則等意義) towards the end of section 5.4. Actually the author goes further than Wikipedia suggests, saying that most people agree this explanation is likely correct, in which case 章草 would serve as another example of the sense "orderly". ChromeGames (talk) 10:47, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

語言
Rfv-sense: "written language". Tagged by but not listed. RcAlex36 (talk) 16:26, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
 * This sense seems to be added by (who I don't think is active anymore) in this . It may correspond to "指書面語；詩文的句子. " in Hanyu Da Cidian, though the definition would need some rewording if it is so. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 23:36, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

先行
Rfv-sense: in advance; beforehand. Tagged by but not listed. This sense is common and is found in Pleco. Xiandai Hanyu Cidian and Xiandai Hanyu Guifan Cidian seem to treat it as a verb, though. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 23:25, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

=September 2021=

規範字

 * 1) Simplified Chinese character(s); Simplified Chinese

Entry presumably written because of the lede of the ja.wp article.

One usage found, from Google Books and Scholar searches for 〜と　〜を　〜は:.

—Suzukaze-c (talk) 10:55, 7 September 2021 (UTC)


 * From my limited searching, this spelling only seems to be used in Japanese works that quote Chinese texts.
 * Since this kind of usage does indeed happen, and since Japanese readers would indeed read this string with the expected Japanese pronunciation, I think it merits a Japanese entry. However, such an entry definitely needs to be clear about context and usage -- in Japanese writing, the term  is much more commonly used to mean "Simplified Chinese".
 * — 2,570 hits
 * — 98,400,000 hits
 * FWIW, I find more than one hit at Google Books: nets me 223 ostensible hits, collapsing to 80 when paging through.  Many of these have no preview and the relevant string is not apparent in the snippets shown, but there are enough that do show the string in context to meet CFI.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:00, 7 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Are we sure that they are referring to China's "規範字", and not to generic "規範" + "字"? —Suzukaze-c (talk) 22:02, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * For some of the hits, possibly. I only scanned the results briefly.  I do note that many of them explicitly mention 中国の, or 台湾, or use phrasing like 「簡体字」または「規範字」, etc.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 06:07, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * —Fish bowl (talk) 00:16, 19 April 2022 (UTC)


 * 規範字 is mentioned in: 中国の常用漢字表『通用規範漢字表』が公開 計8105字に増加in a document title 『規範字と繁体字、異体字の対照表』; This paper by 辻田正雄; This design and printing glossary, etc.. Plus, 規範字 can hardly be understood separately as "規範" + "字", because this term is used only used in mainland China due to differences in terminologies. In Taiwan, it is called or  instead; in Japan, its counterpart is 字体 (in-table) and  (chiefly off-table); no such mandatory standard exists in Hong Kong. --H2NCH2COOH (Talk) 02:28, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

User 112.197.72.179
He was on an editing spree today. I didn't think much of it but this edit looked weird to me. Could somebody maybe check this edit (and maybe some others) to make sure, this user isn't vandalizing? --Fytcha (talk) 19:07, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * This is probably not the right venue for this, but thanks for reporting this. I think maybe WT:TR would be a better place to discuss this. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 19:45, 13 September 2021 (UTC)


 * it's User:Fumiko Take. meh. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 20:51, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Ya, apparently she's working through some kind of medical reference and hitting a lot of anatomy terms in Japanese. And, unfortunately, making a bit of a hash of it, as at  or.
 * She's wrong often enough, and she's bull-headed enough, that I'd be tempted to block her to spare us the work of vetting and cleaning up after her -- but she jumps around IP addresses so much that I don't think this would be at all effective.    ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:45, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * (pinging IP address master —Suzukaze-c (talk) 02:37, 25 September 2021 (UTC))
 * : I don't know if I can contribute much: although I did save some data when they were blocked and there was a reason to run checkuser on them, this IP range has no connection to anything in that data and I have no grounds for using the checkuser tool now to compare browser data- no one is blocked, and no one is using their anonymity to get away with anything.
 * The abuse filters we used to stop the Sky UK, Thai and Pays de Loire IPs won't work very well here, because there are lots of entries with both Vietnamese and Japanese sections, so there would be lots of collateral damage- we would be blocking Vietnamese IPs from editing their own language. It would require a more sophisticated regex to verify which language section they were editing, and I'm not exactly a regex master. Coming up with a list of IP ranges to trigger the regex checks is another challenge (fetching wikitext is very expensive as abuse filter operations go, so I don't want to do it for every single IP edit). Chuck Entz (talk) 00:31, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

しんど
Sense: tire, languor

Although 深度, 進度, 震度, 心土, 伸度 and Sindh can all be read しんど, I'm not aware of this sense of the word. I wonder if the person who added it (an IP address apparently at Peking University) confused it with (maybe しんどさ)? Speaking of which, the same IP address edited the latter page one minute after they created this one, suggesting that しんどい comes from しんど. I don't think that is the case, either. Am I mistaken? Cnilep (talk) 06:50, 14 September 2021 (UTC)


 * See also Kotobank, which lists this specific sense. My local copy of Daijirin also notes that adjective  comes from, which the KDJ explains is in turn apparently a shift from .  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:07, 24 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes, I saw the entry in KDJ only after I had posted this. I've never seen the word used (as far as I can recall), though. So to my question, "Am I mistaken?" apparently the answer is "yes". It's not the first time, and probably won't be the last. Cnilep (talk) 23:46, 24 September 2021 (UTC)


 * maybe a usage: https://wave.pref.wakayama.lg.jp/bunka-archive/minyou/02-202.html : つづら折りなる 細道を／しんどしんどと 人々はヨイヤサ
 * a usage, identical to the Digital Daijisen's usage example: https://www.city.osaka.lg.jp/kodomo/page/0000038769.html : ついつい「あーしんど！」と
 * —Fish bowl (talk) 21:52, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

味気ない
Contemporary senses of Etymology 1, あじきない (contra Etymology 2, あじけない, with the same kanji and essentially the same meaning)

I added three quotations before I stopped to think that, based on the writing system, there may no reasonable way to argue whether these are the first or second Etymology.

, Do you have ideas about how this should be handled?

Cnilep (talk) 00:43, 22 September 2021 (UTC)


 * https://furigana.info/w/味気 :) —Suzukaze-c (talk) 01:58, 22 September 2021 (UTC)


 * See also Kotobank: Digital Daijisen entry, Kokugo Dai Jiten entry. Both give both kana renderings,  and .  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:47, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * PS: Thinking more specifically about the challenge that Cnilep brings up about identifying etym and sense, I see that the KDJ entry specifically indicates that the reading correlates to sense ③ for the  reading.  So presumably any quote that looks more clearly to be senses ① or ② for  thus cannot fit for, ruling out that reading.  Likewise, the DDJS entry ties sense ① for  with , while the other senses for  appear to be specific to that reading.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:05, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

= November 2021 =

人家
Rfv-sense: "dwelling". Tagged by. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 02:32, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * This sense ("dwelling" = "house" but more formal) exist in Japanese and Korean and also CC-CEDICT (along with "somebody else's house"). I have just created a Japanese and Korean (hanja) entry. I couldn't find anything solid to confirm this sense in Chinese but this search may give interesting matches. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:57, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Welcome back Anatoli! It may be a matter of translation. Probably, "household" and "dwelling" can be combined. In Chinese the sense is just 住户. ---&#62; Tooironic (talk) 03:14, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Carl! If the sense "dwelling" is invalid, do you want to remove it? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 22:56, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Sure, but what about the RfV process? ---&#62; Tooironic (talk) 22:59, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, OK, if you just want it to take its course. Since you added, I thought you might want to cite it. Otherwise, it will be removed eventually. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:20, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Attested in 现代汉语词典. Also, "東南形勝，三吳都會，錢塘自古繁華. 煙柳畫橋，風簾翠幕，參差十萬人家. " by 柳永, etc.. --H2NCH2COOH (Talk) 03:37, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quote. We'd need two more for this to pass RFV. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 08:04, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, I wanted to clarify which sense in 现代汉语词典 are you translating as "dwelling"? — justin(r)leung { (t...) 08:07, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * 住户. The example given in the dictionary is "这个村子有百十户~". And also, "遠上寒山石徑斜，白雲深處有人家" by 杜牧, "高秋水村路，隔㟁見人家" by 李中, "三藏道：「悟空，前面人家，可以借宿，明早再行. 」" and "只奔山南坡下，忽見山凹之間有一座草舍人家. " in 西遊記, etc. --H2NCH2COOH (Talk) 08:29, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * 现代汉语词典 defines 住户 as 定居在某处的家庭或有单独户口的人 - isn't this referring to the occupants of a house rather than the dwelling place itself? — justin(r)leung { (t...) 08:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it is a bad explanation then. See https://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/dictView.jsp?ID=135766&q=1&word=%E4%BA%BA%E5%AE%B6#order1 for definition explicitly mentioning the house itself. --H2NCH2COOH (Talk) 08:46, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

= December 2021 =

采
Rfv-senses 17-21: "thing; to exploit, to accept; currency; tomb" (moved to the end of the entry for now)

These senses were all added in one edit along with many other senses that I can account for. However I'm having trouble verifying these couple of senses. Any ideas where they come from or where they are used? Perhaps as alternative forms?

Speaking of alternative forms, the page currently has a lot of them. But I'm reluctant to call 采 an alternative form of other characters like 採 and 彩, because they seem like they might be alternative forms of each other rather than having one character be the main character (although certainly one is more specialized). Perhaps there's a better way to organize things? ChromeGames (talk) 02:03, 6 December 2021 (UTC)


 * These senses seem to be in Hanyu Da Cidian (at least).
 * thing = 事 (Shujing)
 * to exploit; to gain = 取得，获取 (?) (Hanshu, etc.)
 * to accept = 采纳，采用 (?) (Sanguozhi, etc.)
 * currency = 币帛 (Shiji)
 * tomb = 坟墓 (Fangyan) — justin(r)leung { (t...) 18:32, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for confirming their presence, I wonder if I have a different edition/version of Hanyu Da Cidian though since I don't see all of those definitions that you mention? Although I do find:
 * to exploit; to gain = 摘取 (?)
 * to accept = 采纳，采用
 * ChromeGames (talk) 04:39, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my mistake. I meant Hanyu Da Zidian. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:04, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Gotcha, I should definitely try to get my hands on that one. Thanks, ChromeGames (talk) 21:44, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

= January 2022 =

ブス
text —Fish bowl (talk) 05:18, 3 January 2022 (UTC)


 * The hits at suggest that this is a domain-specific jargon term, shortening of, in turn apparently an alternative for .  If we have any appropriate labels or categories for "spelling pronunciation" to describe the shift from  in  to  in , that would apply here.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:50, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

= February 2022 =

では
Japanese. Rfv-senses: (Etymology 3); and  (Etymology 4)

Of Etymology 3, Eirikr says, “How so? Examples? Unclear that this etym even warrants inclusion.” and “Etym 3 is just a usage of the particle combo in Etym 1, whereas ては would presumably be from + ”. [Etymology 1 is ‘Compound of で and は’, ‘at, in’.]

It is similarly not clear to me that this is a separate lexical item.

Of Etymology 4, Eirikr says, “Etym 4 is not a verb, but a different use of the particle combo in Etym 1, eliding the negative coupula and question particle .”

Note that I changed the POS from verb-form to particle. Even so, I do not think that this is a lexical item as such. It is just a use of the Etymology 1 sense.

(Note, too, that I tried to rectify a separate issue noted by Eirikr: “No appropriate sense to cover the では in それでは, so the Etym 2 section is effectively broken (user goes to それでは, gets no explanation)”. That is not related to this RfV, but others might want to see if you disagree with what I did.)

Cnilep (talk) 00:29, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Etymology 3 seems to be the verb conjugation, as in 噛ん では いた.
 * As for Etymology 4: I considered ではないか to be formed from である, and では to be a shortening (or ellipsis?) of that, hence "verb form". —Fish bowl (talk) 02:32, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


 * agreed, etym 3 and 4 looks redundant to me. Shen233 (talk) 03:14, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


 * I spoke to some people I regard as experts, people who teach and/or write about Japanese grammar. We agree that forms such as 嚙んではいない consist of Verb + + . No one I asked thought that ては / では in this construction is a suffix. Cnilep (talk) 23:35, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


 * —Fish bowl (talk) 00:53, 10 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Oh, is that what etym 3 was supposed to be about! Completely unclear as currently written.
 * But ya, that is simply the conjunctive ～て・～で form of a verb + particle . You could also have particle, or , or , or no particle at all.  This is not a lexical item.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 05:39, 10 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Well, it points to ては, which is itself fairly straightforward... —Fish bowl (talk) 04:33, 13 February 2022 (UTC)


 * As for etym 4, being a very new usage, so it's not in common dictionaries, and at least not a verb since it's not a conjugated word. The word which has been elided can be not only ないか, but also polite forms ないですか and ありませんか, honorific form ございませんか and etc. If there were an improvement, it might be to explain it as "negative copula + か".
 * Etym 3 occurs when the verb root is ended in nasal (-g-, -n-, -m-). で in etym 3 is originated from classical verb, while で in etym 1 is from particle , so they are different things.--荒巻モロゾフ (talk) 18:43, 10 February 2022 (UTC)


 * But those are not lexical items. Those are grammatical constructions. The ～て or ～で is part of the verb (adjective, etc.) conjugation, while は, as well as ない, ございません, or what have you are separate lexical items. Similarly, whether one of those items is elided is a matter of grammar and/or usage, not a part of the lexicon.


 * As such they are likely to be found in grammars, and not in dictionaries. See for example Nihongo Bunkei Jiten (1998):
 * 【ては】
 * ［N／Na　では］
 * ［A-くては］
 * ［V-ては］
 * 述語のテ形と「は」の組合さったもの.
 * (“ては. noun では, adj-くては, verb-ては. Combination of the te-form of the predicate with ‘wa’.”)
 * Cnilep (talk) 01:51, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

RFV failed Cnilep (talk) 02:38, 24 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Hm, that it exists is not really disputed. The appropriate treatment IMO would be RFD or RFC. では and ては (verb suffix) should be kept or deleted together as a set. —Fish bowl (talk) 00:48, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Then let's delete. The verb suffix portion is only the  or, exclusive of the , which is clearly the particle and not part of the suffix.  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 01:33, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak keep ては・では (verb suffix); or else move its content to は;
 * keep では (ではないか). —Fish bowl (talk) 01:29, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

庭
Japanese. Rfv-sense: In Man'yōshū I, 2, the first verse 山常庭 (Yamato ni wa) proves the historical use of the Man'yōgana 庭 used phonographically to represent the particle には (ni wa) introducing the place where an action is done. —&#x2060;This.


 * User:Poketalker added two rfv-sense requests on 26 February 2017.
 * (historical) place where something is done
 * (regional) at the entrance of a house, a dirt floor
 * Per 2.36.88.48's comment, the first of these seems to be ateji for the particles には. If that is the case, that would make it archaic (and perhaps uncommon, or obsolete) rather than historical. It would also be a postposition or particle rather than a noun. Cnilep (talk) 23:50, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * For the current sense 2 ("place where something is done"), if we view this as as man'yōgana, this is arguably not entry-worthy, as that is a spelling convention and not a lexical item -- as the anon correctly notes, this is simply locative particle + topic / contrastive particle .  And as  notes, this is a particle combination, not a noun.  Moreover, this usage Old Japanese, not Japanese.
 * That said, there is a noun with the sense of "place where something is done".  The lack of any usex obscured this.  My local copy of Daijirin gives examples like 「学びの―」「裁きの―」, where the preceding genitive  means that, grammatically, this niwa must be a noun.  The entry also includes a quote from the ': 「すなわち霊畤(ﾏﾂﾘﾉﾆﾜ)を鳥見の山の中に立てて/日本書紀（神武訓）」 (clearly showing use in a compound noun), and one from the ': 「武庫の海の―良くあらし漁(ｲｻﾘ)する/万葉 3609」 (here coming again after a, marking this as a noun).
 * I am not sure if the noun sense for "place where something is done" is still current, however -- the quotes are OJP and not JA.
 * The current sense 3 ("at the entrance of a house, a dirt floor") is included in Daijirin as well, with a quote from a play dating to 1720: 「そろばん追取―へくわらりと投げ捨たり/浄瑠璃・天の網島（中）」.
 * Again, I'm unsure if this sense is still in current use, and if it is regional (as currently labeled), I don't know what regions. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 17:33, 15 February 2022 (UTC)


 * I put three citations of 'place where something is done' on Citations:庭. I also removed 'historical' from the sense, as these are contemporary. Cnilep (talk) 00:35, 18 February 2022 (UTC)


 * No offense directed at you personally. But I am really frustrated at seeing inline citations being removed. I use dictionaries to find "how" and "when" a word and sense have been in use. It supports the given sense as well as etymology. I am most interested in the older citations, but any are better than none. Without any supporting citations, why should I believe any of the definitions given?
 * While I was not involved in this entry, I have spent many pain staking hours searching and adding citations to find them gone several years later. When there are dozens or even hundreds of citations, moving some to the citation page may make sense, while prioritizing older and relevant citations. But very few entries in this entire project have that many citations. Most entries and senses are missing them completely, which really hurts this dictionary. Bendono (talk) 11:41, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

RFV passed for sense "place where something is done". No citations yet for "dirt floor", but it is in other dictionaries. Cnilep (talk) 00:51, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

= March 2022 =

したれ
Japanese. (dialect) imperative of

Added by User:0.02s, who included the label dialect and asked "what dialect?"

Nihon Hōgen Daijiten includes したれば (alternate form of したら, which in turn is a Tohoku conjunction meaning, ), as well as したれる (form of the verb ) and ごしたれる (form of the Tohoku/Hokuriku verb ). Nihon Kokugo Daijiten includes したれ‐ど and したれ‐ども, which it derives respectively as and  (both roughly “doing in spite of”, if I understand correctly), but doesn't mark them as dialect. Both Digital Daijisen and Shin Wa-Ei Chūjiten have してやる, variously glossed as “do for (someone)”, “trick (someone)”, or “do as one pleases”. I can't find したれ as such, though, and don't know whether it might be a form of Tohoku したら or some other (regional? class?) variant of してやる (or maybe just して?). Cnilep (talk) 02:32, 24 March 2022 (UTC)


 * I see a hit over at Nihon Jiten. Their entry for したれ (shitare) indicates that this is, the dialect used in  on Shikoku.  Apparently it's a contraction of .  There's also a separate entry for the Kansai dialect phrase , where this  appears to be again a contraction of.
 * HTH, ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 01:30, 25 March 2022 (UTC)


 * So, should it be したれ, or したる? The current Digital Daijisen in Kotobank has 為て遣ったり but (oddly) not 為て遣る. (It does, however, gloss 為て遣ったり as 「してやる」 + 「たり」.) I can't tell if this is some kind of defective paradigm, or just "dialect" enough that the editors neglect it a bit. Cnilep (talk) 02:44, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

ポワ
Japanese. nothing in google scholar/books —Fish bowl (talk) 09:50, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

ポア
04:57, 28 March 2022 (UTC)


 * FWIW, just in preliminary poking, I found that the JA WP has a hint of this at ja:w:ポア, a disambig page -- but the mentioned article about this particular aspect of Tibetan Buddhism, at ja:w:ポア (チベット仏教), is a redlink.
 * There's some background material about this subject in English at w:Phowa. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 10:28, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

if these entries are about ポア (オウム真理教), that should be made very clear, and the "Tibetan Buddhism" tag now currently on ポワ should be removed pending cites about Tibetan Buddhism. —Fish bowl (talk) 00:32, 19 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I've rewritten ポア, but ポワ still needs to be examined, and the claim I made about ポワ there (based on the Japanese Wikipedia page) should be verified. —Fish bowl (talk) 21:34, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

= April 2022 =

わらわ
Japanese. Rfv-sense: (modern fiction, women's speech) I; me (used by haughty women of the highest classes of society)

The entry was previously tagged for cleanup as "Very confusing entry, requires clarification and formatting; expansion also needed". I've done my best to clean it up, but I don't know why there are two senses both glossed, essentially, as "I". (The other is: "(archaic, women's speech, humble) I; me".) I guess that if the word is used in contemporary fiction with a different connotation, this might make sense, but I haven't seen such use myself. I should note, though, that Japanese sources say the the pronoun came to be associated with samurai women in early Modern Japanese, so that may be a clue. Cnilep (talk) 06:28, 13 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Widespread use: see 日本語の一人称代名詞 (as already written in the entry as a comment), as well as the list of fictional characters using this pronoun at https://dic.pixiv.net/a/わらわ#h2_1 well exceeding 3 independent works. —Fish bowl (talk) 06:32, 13 April 2022 (UTC)


 * The Wikipedia article on pronouns includes commentary, but no usage examples. If the usage is easy to find, then could you please add some? Thanks, Cnilep (talk) 07:05, 13 April 2022 (UTC)


 * There's also わらわ, which mentions humble usage, but says nothing about haughtiness... ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 10:41, 13 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Probably not immediately due to a lack of direct access to these works, and I still think it is widespread use. —Fish bowl (talk) 03:30, 20 April 2022 (UTC)


 * You suggested this is widespread, but so far no one has added attestation. Any update? Cnilep (talk) 05:59, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

ゴーブレーキ
Okinawan. —Fish bowl (talk) 00:29, 19 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm not finding anything likely.
 * (adding the to filter) turns up only three hits, of which only one doesn't have punctuation between the  and the  -- but it's a blog hosted on a server in Poland, and visiting the site shows that it is indeed written in Polish, and the term ゴーブレーキ is nowhere to be found.
 * If @Kwékwlos can't add any more detail, I think we must delete this as unconfirmable. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:33, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @Eirikr It is found on Tranter's "The Languages of Japan and Korea" citing Tsuhako's "Okinawa Chū-Nanbu hōgen", but I forgot to add it. Kwékwlos (talk) 21:04, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @Kwékwlos — Ah, thank you! I don't suppose you can find any quotes?  And is this Okinawan, as in Naha Ryukyuan, or Okinawan, as in Okinawan-flavored Japanese?  A few of the mainland JA uses I encountered in searches seemed to suggest a subset of, but I didn't (and don't) have time for a more extensive search. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 21:33, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The actual Okinawan language, not the Japanese dialect. Kwékwlos (talk) 22:07, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

= May 2022 =

蛍
Chinese. Simplified form of 𬠰. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:11, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The simplified form of 𬠰 is 蛍 because 𦥯 always becomes 𰃮 in simplified Chinese.
 * I was not making things up. I was simply following 简化字总表. --172.58.88.250 06:13, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * 類推簡化字 need to be attested. None of these are found exactly in 简化字总表. Pinging for opinion on these. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 22:00, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * They don't require independent verrification. 简化字总表 states that any trad.-simp. pair in Table 2 is generally applicable to other characters, even if it isn't listed in Table 3. --H2NCH2COOH (Talk) 04:13, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, so they are acceptable as 類推簡化字. However, I do think they need to be attested per WT:ATTEST for the purposes of Wiktionary. I'm wondering if other Chinese editors have any opinion on this — justin(r)leung { (t...) 18:39, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The problem with clinging to attestation in Chinese is that there are tons of variants (not just simplified Chinese, but also ancient ones), and it is simply impossible to do in practice. And since simplified Chinese is a relatively new and "artificial" thing, it is hard to find cases where the simplified forms of these rare characters being used. However, the Table 2 did tell us how they should theoretically be simplified when used (since the writing system is "artificial"). This rule has been generally applied to rare characters in classical Chinese publications, and there should not be any exception in these cases when they appear (unless you are talking about the guideline of the latest standard, which recommends traditional forms if outside 通用规范汉字表: but that would probably be even more dreadful to deal with). --H2NCH2COOH (Talk) 20:52, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Well I do think there is something questionable. Not about the simplification rule, but the existence of the supposed "traditional" forms in Chinese -- are they really used in ancient texts? Or are they just made up for names? --H2NCH2COOH (Talk) 21:00, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * 𨍶 and 𦦗 are presented in Kangxi Dictionary and some others, so I believe they are actually used in ancient text and their simplified form can be derived accordingly. 𠙦 seems like a variant form of 煢 so they both can possibly be treated as variants. --H2NCH2COOH (Talk) 15:14, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Neutral: honestly a lot of the weirder chinese characters don't meet CFI anyway (like zh-historical-dict, which literally says citations probably don't exist). —Fish bowl (talk) 03:24, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * True, but it should at least be verifiable by the same way as entries, i.e. listed in a published source as a variant/simplified form. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 15:02, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Justinrleung Is it worth formalising Chinese as a limited documentation language when dealing with (say) Middle Chinese and earlier? There might be a better cut-off point. Theknightwho (talk) 14:23, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Only Standard Written Chinese is well-documented, so any other form of Chinese would be considered limited documentation language. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 14:25, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
 * @Justinrleung To be clear, I'm referring to ancient forms only cited in historical dictionaries, such as the ones Fish bowl mentions. If those are already covered by the LDL policy due to being pre-modern anyway then fair enough. Theknightwho (talk) 14:40, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Yup, that's covered. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 14:53, 4 July 2022 (UTC)


 * I am sceptical that this one can be attested, because 𬠰 (U+2C830) is only used in Taiwanese names and has the reading xué. I'm quite relaxed about including simplified forms of rare characters, but the prima facie evidence suggests this is unlikely to be real. Theknightwho (talk) 16:33, 3 July 2022 (UTC)


 * RFV failed (for now) since the traditional form hasn't even been made. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 04:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

荤
Chinese. Simplified form of 𨍶. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:15, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The simplified form of 𨍶 is 荤 because 𤇾 and 車 always become 𫇦 and 车 respectively in simplified Chinese. --172.58.88.250 06:13, 7 May 2022 (UTC)


 * RFV failed (for now) since the traditional form hasn't even been made. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 04:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

栄
Chinese. Simplified form of 𦦗. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:21, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The simplified form of 𦦗 is 栄 because 𦥯 always becomes 𰃮 in simplified Chinese. --172.58.88.250 06:13, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The traditional form isn't in the Kangxi dictionary (Unicode says it would appear on p. 1005), but it is in 《字彙補·八》. Theknightwho (talk) 16:48, 3 July 2022 (UTC)


 * RFV failed (for now) since the traditional form hasn't even been made. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 04:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Note: 𦦗 is now created. 2607:FB91:3AE:8EA8:61BC:D373:3EC4:F7BC 00:17, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

㮠
Chinese. Simplified form of 𣞁. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:23, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The simplified form of 𣞁 is 㮠 because 𤇾 always becomes 𫇦 in simplified Chinese. --172.58.88.250 06:13, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Although neither are presented in mainstream dictionaries, it follows the simplification rule, and Unihan has 㮠 as the simp. form of 𣞁. --H2NCH2COOH (Talk) 15:22, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Again, I'm sceptical of this one, because 𣞁 (U+23781) is used in Taiwanese names with the reading róng. @ND381 is that how it's also used in Hong Kong? I assume so from the definition, but I just want to check that that usage applies to both. Theknightwho (talk) 16:58, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
 * It's probably not an everyday character, so asking anyone about how it's used would not give you much info. I did find 𣞁 in names of people from ancient texts, which I've put in Citations:𣞁. As for whether the simplified form is found, it might be worth looking for simplified reprints of those ancient texts, but I haven't been able to find any of those. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 19:28, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

䒮
Chinese. Simplified form of 𠙦. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:26, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The simplified form of 𠙦 is 䒮 because 𤇾 always becomes 𫇦 in simplified Chinese. --172.58.88.250 06:13, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * 𠙦 (U+20666) is a variant of 茕 that is apparently in 中華字海, and also shows up in 教育部異體字字典. Apparently the source for 䒮 is Singapore, but I can't find what list it came from, and this doc submitted to Unicode in February considers it questionable. Theknightwho (talk) 19:03, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I checked a copy of 中华字海, and it seems like 𠙦 doesn't exist in the dictionary. It is instead 焭 (page 123, 几部 + 10 strokes). — justin(r)leung { (t...) 18:45, 4 July 2022 (UTC)


 * RFV failed (for now) since the traditional form hasn't even been made. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 04:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

= July 2022 =

煩悩
Japanese. Rfv-sense:


 * ( —Fish bowl (talk) 23:48, 3 July 2022 (UTC))
 * neologism for the dictionary citation? The 2004 cite most likely refers to "the mental state of klesha" sense. ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 07:59, 29 July 2022 (UTC)


 * I would caution against relying on 実用日本語表現辞典. 実用日本語表現辞典 is an anonymously published blog. It's not even pseudonymous. It apparently tries to document terms in recently popular usage in the Japanese speaking internet. Weblio apparently includes their entries, but I would say that indicates Weblio's loose standards more than anything else. Whym (talk) 12:15, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

= August 2022 =

睘
Japanese. Not part of the Kanken. Added. If this can't be verified then be advised that this is not a one-off; I've encountered quite a number of such spurious kanji entries (and senses). &mdash; Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 22:55, 5 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Weblio's Kanji Jiten ("Kanji Dictionary") entry explicitly states that this isn't used in Japanese: https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E7%9D%98
 * ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 07:38, 7 August 2022 (UTC)


 * would be necessary for a 漢文訓読 reading of the 詩経:, but that might be the only usage. —Fish bowl (talk) 22:17, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * → . Someone flexing their vocabulary. —Fish bowl (talk) 22:19, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * using the variant 瞏々 —Fish bowl (talk) 04:14, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

삼대체강
Korean. 0 results at, , 1 result at.

—Fish bowl (talk) 00:40, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It seems that the spelling is borrowed from the Japanese "三大体腔". --Dubukimchi (talk) 02:17, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

= October 2022 =

觿
Japanese. An IP claims this "Kanjihas no known use beyond Literary Chinese writings", in which case it seems not to merit a Japanese entry. But I don't know a whole lot about the niceties of CJK, so bringing it here. This, that and the other (talk) 11:58, 3 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Kotobank has something like that sense for Chinese (in Chu-Nichi Jiten), but elsewhere has the kanji as a variant of くじり (くじること). I added the Japanese sense and formatted the section, but haven't verified the IP user's sense or the readings. Cnilep (talk) 06:43, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 * This seems like a rare but valid kanji spelling. I'm having a go at this, locating the main entries at the kana spellings of  and .  (Still in process, links are still red as I write this.) ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 17:38, 28 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Usage of 觿 would be necessary for a 漢文訓読 translation of 礼記 and 史記 . —Fish bowl (talk) 21:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

= January 2023 =

𣀟
Vietnamese. Chữ Nôm character. The reading is và, but I cannot connect it to any of the meanings on its page. As much as I've found is dictionaries saying it means reed, and "một và bông lau" which doesn't make much sense to me. Regireki (talk) 13:38, 31 August 2022 (UTC)


 * @Regireki Bông lau means "reed". Và means "and" or "several". So in this quote and context, "một và bông lau", it means "several reed plants". Compare một và to một chút (a little bit) and một ít (a little bit).
 * Also the character is composed of 𣀟 (⿺巴數) where 巴 is the phonetic radical and 數 is the semantic radical meaning "several". Lachy70 (talk) 04:31, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

= February 2023 =

潭
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "Liu River". Tagged by — justin(r)leung { (t...) 21:11, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Perhaps just a typo; exists according to Wikipedia. —Fish bowl (talk) 02:21, 21 March 2023 (UTC)


 * It's not a typo, but it's a historical name for 柳江 according to 漢語大字典. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 04:18, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

ノルマ
Japanese. Rfv-sense: "thing that happens regularly".

Added by me in and removed by User:Rajzin since it doesn't appear in other reference works.

I note the existence of https://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/ノルマ達成 and https://dic.pixiv.net/a/ノルマ達成 (and also that they define ノルマ using the conventional definition), but cannot find the time for further verification work. I can accept that it is just my misinterpretation.

—Fish bowl (talk) 23:29, 23 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I think I can see where that sense fits. Whether that's included in other reference works is irrelevant if we can find enough clear examples of usage demonstrating this sense to meet CFI (three).
 * I have no time today for this, possibly not for the near term (various other responsibilities IRL keeping me busy). ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 16:52, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

呵
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "(Cantonese) Used to point out something that one would like confirmation for.", pronunciation ho1. I believe this should be an alt form of 嗬 (ho2, "(Cantonese) Sentence-final particle used in an interrogative seeking confirmation."), also commonly written as 可 and possibly 呵, but I do not think it would be pronounced ho1. – Wpi31 (talk) 10:09, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it should be ho2. Matthews and Yip (Cantonese: A Comprehensive Grammar) writes ho2 as 呵. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 23:46, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

伏地魔
Chinese.

If "Noun" is correct, this RFV requests quotes matching Voldemort: "An evil, harmful, or widely feared person or thing."

If "Noun" is a mistake for "Proper noun", see WT:FICTION.

—Fish bowl (talk) 22:55, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

佛地魔
Another entry. —Fish bowl (talk) 23:14, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

= March 2023 =

Kawanakajima shōgi
川中島将棋 (redlink) appears to be rather niche, with one Google Scholar hit, two Google Books hits, and 36 Google hits under default settings.

Template:table:Kawanakajima shogi pieces and senses at 軍曹 士官 砲兵 近衛 将軍 騎兵
Japanese.

川中島
Chinese. where 川中島將棋 is a redlink.

—Fish bowl (talk) 22:50, 16 March 2023 (UTC)


 * These seem like RFV issues. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 04:02, 20 March 2023 (UTC)


 * OK; moved. —Fish bowl (talk) 01:56, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * forgot to re-ping after the move? Also, added Japanese entry to Kawanakajima so the entry does not get deleted completely. ～ POKéTalker（＝◉＝） 05:14, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

神デレ
Japanese. At "神デレ" the first result is Wiktionary, the only other relevant result is F*ndom (yikes), and the rest is some (presumably) proper noun related to a single product.

—Fish bowl (talk) 01:59, 21 March 2023 (UTC)


 * This search seems to weed out a lot of specific cruft: . A lot of this appears to be manga and anime, an area of Japanese that I actually never really got into.
 * I note also that finds nothing at all.  Using hiragana for  does generate hits, but none for this noun sense -- the  in these hits appears to be a verb stem, and the  appears to be the latter element of a compound.  Not promising for WT:CFI. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:05, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

充牣
Japanese.

User:馬太阿房 noted this as Gikun for in the Meiji Bible, but couldn't find other Japanese usage. I can't find it in archives of Asahi Shimbun (from 1879) or Yomiuri Shimbun (from 1876), and Google Books snippets seem like probably scannos. NKD lists it as じゅう‐じん, with a note, "「仞」はみちる意" (仞/牣 means みちる "to be filled"). The site furigana.info also says the reading is じゅうじん.

I briefly changed the POS from noun to verb-suru, since the gloss suggests an accomplishment, but the one usage I found thanks to NKD (from 1869) doesn't include する, so I changed it back. Cnilep (talk) 02:43, 28 March 2023 (UTC)


 * (furigana.info also includes book extracts from Aozora Bunko, and they have two uses of 充牣する by 夏目漱石. —Fish bowl (talk) 23:43, 30 March 2023 (UTC))


 * https://lab.ndl.go.jp/dl/book/770526?keyword=充牣&page=6 has 充牣 in some list probably for learning 漢語, annotated simultaneously as ジウジン and ミツ. —Fish bowl (talk) 23:43, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

= April 2023 =

フランベルジェ
Japanese. No Google Scholar hits, no (meaningful) Google Books hits, no Kotobank hits&hellip;&hellip;: just lots and lots of video games. Is that acceptable? —Fish bowl (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Setting aside "Noun" which seems to be a typo, I can only see usage of "為国" (?) as a personal name.

appears in Kotobank, but as a part of a 漢文 dictionary.

—Fish bowl (talk) 07:24, 21 May 2023 (UTC)


 * (adding the し to filter for Japanese verb constructions) generates three hits.
 * Two are from a name website and are mis-hits for the given name.
 * One is a mis-hit with a comma between the two kanji characters.
 * generates five hits, but all only with Google's error-prone "snippet view".
 * Two are from text snippets that demonstrate other scanning artifacts (making it likely that these hits are also scannos, and both of them certainly look dubious).
 * One has a comma in between the two kanji.
 * Two might possibly be valid -- or they might be scannos as well.
 * At any rate, we don't have enough likely-cromulent hits to meet the three-minimum requirement for WT:CFI. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 20:57, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * It looks like it comes from Confucius (子曰能以禮讓爲國乎章) which is usually not translated into Japanese in a way that connects the two characters as a word. However, there are other examples that I think count. None of them suggest -suru verb usage, so it makes sense that "為国し" generates few hits.
 * 「覇者は、民心を得るを以て為国の要義とす」(https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/1153167/1/125 Line 14)
 * 「...之を為国の権と為す」 (https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/903474/1/32 Line 11)
 * 「為国の大道を神定し給ひて...」(https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/759349/1/8 Line 13-)
 * That said, I don't think I grasp the meaning of the last two sentences well (at least without further research), and I cannot be of much help in adding quotations and their translations. Whym (talk) 12:06, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

姛
Chinese. Rfv-sense: Alternative form of 女同. Previously failed RFV, but there seems to be some more evidence surfacing. However, still none of it is durably archived and needs to be discussed. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 14:26, 24 May 2023 (UTC)


 * See Talk:姛. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 01:01, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

= June 2023 =

がばっと
Japanese. Apparently an adverb meaning "bam". No idea what this is supposed to be referring to. Theknightwho (talk) 21:15, 3 June 2023 (UTC)


 * それから、服も脱がずに、ベッドへがばっと倒れ伏して、やすらぎのない眠りにおちた.
 * 敦夫は臥破（がば）と起上った.
 * Whym (talk) 11:23, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Whym Thanks. Is a suitable gloss? "bam" is meaningless to me. Theknightwho (talk) 22:00, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I think and  are both fine.  See also https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%8C%E3%81%B0%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A8.  By way of sound-effects similarity, consider  when used as an adverb. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 00:13, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Suddenly and all of a sudden are not wrong, but we might want to be more precise. I think we want to indicate that something like がばっと空が暗くなった would be less common. がばっと usually implies physical movement and sound made by the subject (typically a human or an animal), or a metaphor of that. There are collocations like がばっと開く (to open wide, like an open mouth) - I don't know if this can be explained together with what's discussed above, or should be explained as a separate sense. Whym (talk) 12:41, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd say "suddenly and rapidly". Compare Daijisen. Nardog (talk) 14:17, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

𗟿
Tangut. "broken". According to which references 簡明夏漢字典 this word means "servant". – Wpi (talk) 13:08, 26 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Wpi Yep - 西夏文詞典 gives the definition 奴 and defines the compound 𗟿𘜫 as 奴婢, so I think we should just change it. Theknightwho (talk) 20:26, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

𬖾 (⿰米頗)
Chữ Nôm features 𬖾 (⿰米頗) as an example of a Vietnam-created character. I would like to see the Pho sense cited to Wiktionary standard (Attestation) if possible. Pinging, a new editor interested in the subject. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 16:32, 29 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The field of Vietnamese characters is sadly full of cruft. The Nôm writing system was never taught or tested in a formal way. People studied Chinese and Nôm was halfway there, like Franglish for people who are studying French. So making up characters as you went along was a perfectly valid thing to do back in the Nôm era, which ended around 1920. The Han-Nom Institute in Hanoi recommends several dictionaries to sort this issue out, including Tran Van Kiem (2004), Ho Le (1976), Nguyen Quang Hong (2014), Takeuchi (1989), and the Institute of Vietnamese Studies (2009).


 * The character above is not from any of these dictionaries, but rather from Đại Từ Điển Chữ Nôm (Great Nôm Dictionary, 1998) by Vũ Văn Kính. With numerous unsourced characters, this dictionary is not on the institute's list of approved references. However, it is easily the best-selling Nôm dictionary in Vietnam, not that many Vietnamese buy Nôm dictionaries these days.


 * Earlier, this character appeared in the Wikipedia article "pho." I have changed it to something better attested. Perhaps the illustration in the chu Nom article can be replaced with 𡂄 (⿰口頗) . Its a similar character from Ho Le's dictionary. 72trombones (talk) 15:26, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

ただ
Japanese. RFV in search of any unambiguous use of this term as a noun -- as an agent or patient of a verb, such as marked by or.

I've done some preliminary digging. While certain Japanese monolingual dictionaries include "noun" as a POS for this (Kojien, Daijirin, Daijisen; FWIW, the NKD does not do this), none of the usage examples listed, nor any I've found online so far, actually show clear use as a noun -- with the term appearing as the agent or patient of a verb. Instead, all usage I've seen so far is consistent with this term being used sometimes as a so-called "no adjective".

If no one can find actual clear use of this term as a noun, I think we have to view the Japanese sources that do this as using an analysis based solely on use with the particle, and that this term is not actually a "noun" as we define it.

‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 17:54, 29 June 2023 (UTC)


 * How would you analyze ただ同然 and ただに等しい? Whym (talk) 09:05, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Whym --
 * In both cases, is immediately modifying the following adjective, and in that syntactic role, it must be an adverb.
 * ただ同然
 * The here is clearly being used as a bare adverb modifying na adjective.
 * → I see a similar confusion in Japanese references for that I see for .  The NKD lists this as a na adjective, Kojien and Shinmeikai give no part of speech (often implying "noun"), and Daijirin and Daijisen list as both na adjective and noun.  But again, the usage examples in the references just show regular no adjective constructions, without any clear evidence of "noun-ness" -- not used as a patient or agent of a verb.  Googling around  shows cases like, where the  seems to be used to mean "all of them the same" -- but this sense is not listed in the Japanese dictionaries.
 * Update:
 * I have to revise the above a bit after looking more closely at the linked page. The fuller context for this instance of  is:
 * 「日用品などをただ同然で配って雰囲気を盛り上げた後、」
 * If we parse the as "all of them the same", the  still parses out as an adverb (basically, "just"), but in this case it's modifying the phrase, or possibly the longer phrase .  ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 21:54, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
 * ただに等しい
 * The in this one can be parsed as either a na adjective used with the  adverbial particle, or simply as an adverb that takes the  adverbial particle, modifying the i adjective.
 * ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:03, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
 * 同然 in ただ同然 is like "virtually", "practically", "almost". Just ただで would be "for free", and ただ同然で is "basically for free", "barely taking any money". At least semantically, it's 同然 that's modifying ただ(で), not vice versa. 同然 seems to almost always follow a noun or も. I don't know if that automatically means ただ there is a noun, but it's definitely not an adverb.
 * ただに等しい is also synonymous to ただ同然: "practically free". に is definitely not an adverbial particle. に等しい = "equivalent to", "tantamount to". It can follow a verb or adjective, as in ないに等しい, するに等しい. Again not sure if that automatically means ただ here is a noun, but your parsing is incorrect. Nardog (talk) 04:03, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

= July 2023 =

幡
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "to flip or turn over". – Wpi (talk) 09:12, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * This is attested in 康熙字典 and 漢語大詞典 -- Ywhy (talk) 20:18, 8 September 2023 (UTC)


 * RFV failed. 漢語大詞典 says it's equivalent to 翻 in the sense of 變動, which is not "to flip or turn over". — justin(r)leung { (t...) 07:21, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Objection. Premature ruling. No consensus has been reached yet.
 * More contexts/quotes are required to refine the gloss. Who's in? -- Ywhy (talk) 17:59, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I checked 漢語大詞典 again, and it gives the definition 變動；反覆, citing a few more quotes: 《漢書·禮樂志二》：“幡比翄回集，貳雙飛常羊. ”《漢書·高帝紀下》“譬猶居高屋之上建瓴水也”顏師古注引三國魏如淳曰：“居高屋之上而幡瓴水，言其向下之勢易也. ” This sense can be readded, but I think "to flip or turn over" is not a great translation and should be refined. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 04:30, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Urgh, whoever cares may see my notes. Sorry for the hiatus. I'm out. -- Ywhy (talk) 12:53, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

㐑
Korean. Does this mean "plural noun"? (If so, it needs reformatting as, and surely it needs to be under a "noun" POS.) Or is it some grammatical marker? This, that and the other (talk) 02:50, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that Objectivesea confused 돌 and -들. --Dubukimchi (talk) 02:49, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

ぎゃ
Japanese. Etymoloy 2: the nominative case; marks the subject of the verb

This is described in the etymology as being "Found in the Okinawa strata" and has the label, and has one citation dating back to the 16th century from the , which makes me think this much more likely to be a Ryukyuan language than Japanese. Theknightwho (talk) 00:16, 19 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Agreed that that should be moved to an  entry (and/or some other Ryukyuan language as appropriate).
 * Looking at the history, I suspect that the entry is a leftover from before we had much coverage for the Okinawan languages. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 00:05, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Eirikr It's a bit tricky to know exactly what L2 it should go under, but I suspect it would be Proto-Northern Ryukyuan (which we don't have at the moment, because the Ryukyuan languages haven't been organised up till now).
 * Here's a pretty conservative suggestion for how we could do things, and further refinements are certainly possible.
 * Northern Ryukyuan - Proto-Northern Ryukyuan?
 * Amami-Oshima
 * Northern Amami-Oshima
 * Southern Amami-Oshima
 * Kikai
 * Kunigami
 * Okinawan
 * Oki-No-Erabu
 * Toku-No-Shima
 * Yoron
 * Southern Ryukyuan - Proto-Southern Ryukyuan?
 * Miyako
 * Yaeyama
 * Yonaguni
 * Theknightwho (talk) 12:25, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * This seems reasonable, but I'm not sure how many of those actually include reflexes of this gya particle. A quick search over at JLect finds nothing (https://www.jlect.com/search.php?r=%E3%81%8E%E3%82%83&l=ryukyu&group=words), but then again their Ryukyuan coverage is patchy. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 23:30, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ぎゃ palatalizes after original pR *i (never *e), as in きこゑ大きみぎや (kikowe OFOkimi gya 'the great lord who listens...').
 * The Ryukyuan reflexes in the dictionaries should just reflex -ga. It's actually well attested (probably both as or either a subject marker or a genitive marker) in Ryukyuan; of course JLect's Ryukyuan coverage is more than extremely patchy, so I only use the integrated Okinawa-go Data Shu in it, and even then I've been using them less, as I'm using https://okinawago.app, although you can't search by kanji. (more entry indexing by pure search; no need for special broken characters). Chuterix (talk) 01:40, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Also this is how we can sort things phylogemy of Ryukyuan:
 * Northern Ryukyuan:
 * Amami:
 * Northern Amami-Oshima:
 * Naze:
 * Yamatohama:
 * Yuwan:
 * Kikai:
 * Aden:
 * Nakazato:
 * Southern Amami-Oshima:
 * Koniya:
 * Shodon:
 * Toku-no-Shima:
 * Asama:
 * Kametsu:
 * Oki-no-Erabu:
 * Wadomari:
 * China:
 * Yoron:
 * (Old) Okinawan:
 * Northern Okinawan::
 * Iheya:
 * Izena:
 * Nago:
 * Nakijin:
 * Iejima:
 * Southern Okinawan:
 * Kowan:
 * Shuri:
 * Naha:
 * Tonaki:
 * Southern Ryukyuan/Sakishima:
 * Miyako:
 * Hirara:
 * Uruka:
 * Minaai:
 * Ikema:
 * Irabu:
 * Nagahama:
 * Nakachi:
 * Ogami:
 * Tarama:
 * Minna:
 * Macro-Yaeyama:
 * Nuclear-Yaeyama:
 * Ishigaki:
 * Taketomi:
 * Hatoma:
 * Hateruma:
 * Yonaguni:
 * Chuterix (talk) 01:43, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit confused on a couple points.
 * "ぎゃ palatalizes after original pR *i (never *e), as in きこゑ大きみぎや (kikowe OFOkimi gya 'the great lord who listens...')"
 * A palatalized gya would presumably become ja. Yet I find no particle じゃ or じゃー at the okinawago.jp site: https://okinawago.app/search-results/%E3%81%98%E3%82%83
 * Did you mean instead that が (ga) would palatalize to ぎゃ (gya)? There is a topic particle が listed: https://okinawago.app/definition/oki2yamato/%E3%82%AC
 * "It's actually well attested (probably both as or either a subject marker or a genitive marker) in Ryukyuan; of course JLect's Ryukyuan coverage is more than extremely patchy, so I only use the integrated Okinawa-go Data Shu in it, and even then I've been using them less, as I'm using https://okinawago.app..."
 * Nor do I find any particle ぎゃ or ぎゃー: https://okinawago.app/search-results/%E3%81%8E%E3%82%83
 * Do you have any other sources that list a particle ぎゃ, ぎゃー, じゃ, or じゃー?
 * If Ryukyuan topic particle ga palatalized to gya in a regular and stable fashion, we should presumably still find examples of gya (or affricated ja) in modern Ryukyuan lects. Is there any such evidence?
 * If the only place we find this is in the w:Omoro Sōshi, then I suggest we rework the entry currently at ぎゃ to use "Okinawan" as the L2 heading, and clarify that this is an (archaic? obsolete?) alternative form of が only appearing after front vowel . ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:58, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @Eirikr Sorry for the confusion; I said -ga is well attested in Ryukyuan; (-i)-gya is only in Old Okinawan, and the palatalization was reverted for unknown reasons (perhaps a combination of consistency and influence from Japanese?). No palatalized form of -ga is found in any Ryukyuan languages. Chuterix (talk) 23:08, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @Chuterix, thank you for the clarification, that makes more sense. 😄  Cheers! ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 23:27, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @Chuterix, thank you for the clarification, that makes more sense. 😄  Cheers! ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 23:27, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

我
Vietnamese

我 ngã should not be labelled as archaic for the meaning "I" since in Vietnamese Nôm texts, it was mainly used to mean "to fall". It never had the sense of "I". That sense is only found in Literary Chinese texts written by Vietnamese, but is never found in any Vietnamese language texts. So labelling the term as archaic is misleading.

1. chữ Hán form of ngã, ngả (“(archaic) I; me”). Lachy70 (talk) 18:51, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The easy solution is to simply remove any label, like you said, it's simply not a Vietnamese morpheme, but it's a Vietnamese reading of a Chinese morpheme using a fairly static set of literary readings and therefore does merit a mention. Vietnamese speakers or not, it seems to people just constantly mistake Written Chinese terms for Vietnamese terms, there used to be even users who straight-up added examples blatantly in Chinese in Vietnamese entries because they were in texts written by Vietnamese writers; I bet there're still dozens and dozens entries of such "Chinese terms with Vietnamese readings" that haven't been detected and delete yet and they're still sometimes made. Korean contributors sometimes use the label "Korean Classical Chinese" when they want to add a particular "Korean" usage of Chinese morphemes or term; obviously in this particular case of ngã there's no need for anything similar since it's simply a Chinese morpheme used in its function in the original language, but I do think sometimes stuff should just be added to the Chinese entries using "Vietnamese Classical Chinese" or such similar label. PhanAnh123 (talk) 19:12, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is why I added the label "Literary Chinese" for the entry, the edit was later reverted. I would prefer it if it was common practice to label Literary Chinese terms with Vietnamese practice as something like "Vietnamese Classical Chinese" or something similar. Lachy70 (talk) 19:18, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

In Buddhist literature, the word is used for the atman, their concept of the ego. This sense is still missing, though. Otherwise the sense “I, me” should be deleted as not Vietnamese. MuDavid 栘𩿠 (talk) 08:46, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

= September 2023 =

𛀁
Japanese. Rfv-sense: "Identical in meaning to the particle, but used only after pronunciations of , , and .", marked as obsolete. Tagged over three years ago by User:Huhu9001 but seemingly never listed. 0DF (talk) 23:57, 4 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm honestly not even entirely sure what that sense line is supposed to mean. Extrapolating, this sounds like -- at best -- an orthographic variant in an attempt at indicating a glide to prevent hiatus between the otherwise-identical two /e/ sounds.  Given the historical vagaries I've seen in spellings, I suspect this might have been part of the Meiji era penchant for pedantic hypercorrection, but without more detail, it's hard to be certain.
 * I just did some poking around in my references, and I can't find any mention of this use, FWIW. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 20:08, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

RFV failed? 0DF (talk) 17:34, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

听
Japanese.

—Fish bowl (talk) 22:33, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

截胡
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "to steal other people's delivery" and "to steal other people's work or production that is just finished or nearly finished". I think that the meaning of this word is "to do something before others can do it" or "be the early bird". These two senses are already included in my suggestion of the revised definition.--Mahogany115 (talk) 01:09, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

墸
Japanese, Chinese, Translingual. This is ostensibly a ghost character, a character which doesn't actually exist and was only encoded due to an error by the Japanese standards body: but it is asserted to have a definition in both Japanese and Chinese, and to exist Translingually. So does it exist? In which languages? - -sche (discuss) 03:45, 21 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Weblio only has a KANJIDIC stub, and KANJIDIC / Unihan is known for being rife with errors when it comes to the rare characters.
 * Meanwhile, the JA Wikt entry at ja:墸 calls it a variant / mistaken form for 𣦡 or 堵.
 * For the former, the entry notes that this appears just once in excerpts from the w:Jiyun, and is likely a scribal mistake.
 * For the former, the entry notes that this was included in the earlier JIS standards, but further research for the fourth edition in 1997 concluded that this was a ghost character.
 * I say this is rubbish -- KANJIDIC / Unihan appear to have gotten this wrong. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:21, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

壥
Japanese, Chinese, Translingual. As with 墸, above. Does this exist in Chinese? Is only the Japanese section a ghost? Or is the whole character not real? - -sche (discuss) 03:47, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

妛
Japanese, Chinese. As with 壥: is it a real character? In which languages? - -sche (discuss) 03:52, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
 * For Chinese, it seems to be a dictionary-only variant of 媸, found in Yupian and Jiyun. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 23:18, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

挧
As with 壥 above: the Japanese standards body now claims this character doesn't exist, yet we list a meaning not only in Japanese, but also in Chinese. In which languages is it a real character? - -sche (discuss) 03:52, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Attested in Chinese, but there seem to be various usages, which I've started compiling at Citations:挧. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 10:29, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

暃
Like 挧. - -sche (discuss) 03:52, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

袮
Like 挧. - -sche (discuss) 03:52, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Cited (as a misspelling) for Chinese. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 17:46, 12 March 2024 (UTC)


 * RFV passed for Chinese. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 07:15, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

駲
Like 挧. - -sche (discuss) 03:52, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The only cases I could find for this look like misprints (or a variant) of 馴. It's unclear how "real" the zhōu reading is (as found in 全字庫). — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:34, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

碵
Japanese. We claim (via category) that this is a ghost kanji, not a character that has ever really be used. It is not, however, on the JIS list, which implies it has actually been used... in which case it's not a ghost... - -sche (discuss) 06:55, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

穃
As with 碵. - -sche (discuss) 06:55, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

粐
As with 碵. - -sche (discuss) 06:55, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

槞
RFV of the ... Chinese and Vietnamese sections, I guess? We and the Japanese standards body say this is a ghost character which doesn't exist...at least not in Japanese. But our entry has a Chinese and a Vietnamese section. Does it exist in those languages? If so, it's weird that the Japanese got so concerned that it had been 'erroneously included' by them, if it would've presumably been included by the Chinese standards body for themselves if the Japanese hadn't already included it... (Cf. RFV#碵, RFV#墸, and the Tea Room discussion of ghost kanji.) - -sche (discuss) 06:55, 21 September 2023 (UTC)


 * @-sche It was used in Vietnamese,
 * From a poem in 國音詩集 Quốc âm thi tập,
 * 槐 Hoè
 * 夢冷乃乃摆槐槞 Mống lành nẩy nẩy bởi hoè trồng
 * Reference for 槞 in Vietnamese.png Lachy70 (talk) 01:56, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Added sources to the entry, Tự Điển Chữ Nôm Dẫn Giải in particular has this and other examples of usage. MSG17 (talk) 15:08, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

閠
As with 槞: is this, as the Japanese say, a nonexistent character, or does it exist in Chinese and Korean as we say? - -sche (discuss) 07:05, 21 September 2023 (UTC)


 * In Chinese it is a variant of the character “閏”https://homeinmists.ilotus.org/hd/hydzd3.php?st=page_no&kw=4368 103.151.172.26 19:28, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

椦
As with 槞: is this, as the Japanese say, a nonexistent character, or does it exist in Chinese and Korean as we say? - -sche (discuss) 07:05, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

アドラブル
Japanese. "adorable"

Tagged by another user in June 2023 but not listed here. Cnilep (talk) 03:51, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

ꥸᅦퟗ
Korean. The definition implies this is a hapax. This, that and the other (talk) 00:24, 28 September 2023 (UTC)


 * As written in the entry, it is a hapax legomena from 선문통해 (seonmun tonghae, in 1922).
 * "一例를 示컨대 짧 ꥸᅦퟗ ᄋힳᆫ 此等字는 (...) For example, the letters 짧, ꥸᅦퟗ and ᄋힳᆫ are (...)" Dubukimchi (talk) 05:53, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

= October 2023 =

驕人
Chinese. Rfv-sense: Added by "to try to impress people; to show off". RcAlex36 (talk) 09:40, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It comes from the "Far East Chinese-English Dictionary 遠東漢英大辭典 簡明本" published in 2005. The definition is the same word-for-word. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 11:18, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It feels mergeable with the first verb sense "to regard someone with disdain; to turn up one's nose at someone; to show contempt for others"; it sort of aligns with 顯出驕氣 in Liang'an Cidian and 表現驕傲的態度 in Guoyu Cidian. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:48, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

= November 2023 =

白亜質
Japanese.

Koujien defines this word as a dental term (synonym of ) and a noun. —Fish bowl (talk) 02:29, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

= December 2023 =

人擬き
Japanese.

Not in the monolingual dictionaries I checked, and the phrasings in the usage examples are not collocations (little to no Google hits). There are Google hits for "人擬きの", but they are all in creative works and seem to be literally 人+擬き. —Fish bowl (talk) 06:54, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Looks like WWWJDIC has it: http://nihongo.monash.edu/cgi-bin/wwwjdic?1MUJ%E4%BA%BA%E6%93%AC%E3%81%8D
 * But then again, they do take submissions from the public. I'm not sure what kind of vetting process they have.  And like you say, I also can't find it in any monolingual JA sources.
 * Meanwhile, turns up hits suggesting that this might instead mean  or .  Hmm. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:48, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

朝鮮民族
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "Joseon ethnicity". Tagged by. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:41, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Is the question whether Joseon == Korean for this sense, or if 朝鲜民族 is a valid expanded form of 朝鮮族？ If it's the latter, there are definitely usages of it on governmental sites:
 * > 这表明，朝鲜族人已经形成为区别于朝鲜半岛朝鲜民族的心理素质 (改革开放后东北三省朝鲜族的海外移民问题初探)
 * > 废除朝文汉字混用，为纯洁朝鲜民族语言文字而努力
 * > 我国朝鲜语言文字发展的缘由
 * > 中国政府在建交公报中声明：尊重朝鲜民族早日实现朝鲜半岛和平统一的愿望，并支持由朝鲜民族自己来实现朝鲜半岛的和平统一.
 * > 外交史上的今天 Kungming2 (talk) 00:30, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

韓民族
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "Hanminzu (especially South) Korean people". Tagged by. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:42, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

= January 2024 =

栄螺
Japanese. Rfv-sense: The KDJ2 on JapanKnowledge gives the following definitions (quotations excluded): "(1)リュウテンサザエ科の巻き貝. 房総半島以南の暖流の影響を受ける海域に限って分布する. 殻高約一〇センチメートルで殻はよくふくらむ. 表面にとげが二列に並ぶが、内湾産のものは小さく、またまったく無いものもある. 外面はふつう暗青色で内面は真珠色. 殻の口は円形で、ふたは石灰質で厚く、渦巻き状. 潮間帯から潮下帯の岩礁にすみ、海藻を食べる. 古くから食用にされ、つぼ焼きは有名. 春から初夏にかけてが旬（しゅん）である. 缶詰にもされる. 殻は貝ボタンや細工物に利用. さざい. さだえ. さたべ. さざいがい. 学名はTurbo cornutus 《季・春》 (2) (1)に似た兜（かぶと）の鉢の名. (3)七種蓋置（しちしゅふたおき）の一つ. (1)の形に作ったもの. (4)「さざえどう（栄螺堂）」の略. (5)紋所の名. (1)をかたどったもの."

樣
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "(rare) An honorific." RcAlex36 (talk) 01:13, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

コンビニエンス
Japanese. Rfv-sense: convenience. Created by, tagged by but not listed. This, that and the other (talk) 06:16, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

グラマラス
Japanese. Created by, tagged by but not listed. This, that and the other (talk) 06:18, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

アンコントローラブル
Japanese. Created by, tagged by but not listed. This, that and the other (talk) 06:18, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

インソムニア
Japanese. Created by, tagged by but not listed. This, that and the other (talk) 06:18, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

睘
Japanese. https://kanji.jitenon.jp/kanjiv/10589.html


 * By way of comparison with other dictionary sites, I see that Kotobank has no entries at all: https://kotobank.jp/search?q=%E7%9D%98. Meanwhile, Weblio includes this glyph (at https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E7%9D%98), but explicitly says
 * Likewise for the alternative forms 瞏 and 䁚 listed at that kanji.jitenon.jp site.
 * My suspicion is that these characters are used in Chinese, and someone included them in the JIS standard for character encodings in Japan, despite these not really being used in Japanese. This wouldn't be the first such instance of this, either.
 * Unless someone can find three citations of this in use in Japanese text, as Japanese, and with a specific reading and meaning, we must delete as unconfirmed. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 21:52, 17 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Ha! I thought I had a touch of déjà vu.  😄  This is already listed above for August 2022. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 21:53, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

ᄒᆑᇰ
Middle Korean. Nominated for speedy deletion with rationale "The Middle Korean word is ". Ultimateria (talk) 03:43, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

よもい
In the NKD, appears in Yamanashi, Hida, and Aichi (never Kanto!). Imoshi in Ibaraki also appears in NKD. Sakishima senses were taken from Hirayama et al. 1992. Sanuki 'slow' is unverified, presumably same source as Hirayama et al. 1992??? Chuterix (talk) 03:54, 22 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Just note that Macro-Yaeyama are taken from their respective dictionaries. Chuterix (talk) 03:55, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Japanese. Rfv-sense: Sanuki dialect. dull, slow. Cannot find this anywhere, not even in my dictionaries, nor online. made this entry. Aramaki Morozov also disappeared on September 2023, so there's no luck unless he returns in time. If you can find a source for this sense, please update the entry. Chuterix (talk) 00:33, 3 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Close as harassment of 荒巻モロゾフ. —Fish bowl (talk) 16:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * How does simply saying Aramaki is on an indefinite hiatus close the discussion? This is not really conclusive. Even if s/he was still active, this discussion should not be closed just for this apparent reason. Chuterix (talk) 20:02, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * RFV failed. Chuterix (talk) 19:52, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Merged sections for the same entry. J3133 (talk) 17:23, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

度量
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "measure". Tagged by but not listed. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 15:38, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * This sense was added by in this . Any elaborations on what this means? It might correspond to this definition from Hanyu Da Cidian: 指事物的長短、大小等特征. 《文子·自然》：“老子曰：樸至大者無形狀，道至大者無度量. 故天圓不中規，地方不中矩. ” — justin(r)leung { (t...) 03:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't recall, but that makes sense. &#45;--&#62; Tooironic (talk) 03:58, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

ヘンタイ
Japanese. "hentai "

The Japanese Wikipedia page is named such, but Google (Web, Scholar) searches for ヘンタイ + various particles do not being up anything relevant. —Fish bowl (talk) 22:59, 28 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I did do a brief check, and saw things like 可笑しなヘンタイ図鑑 which suggested it sees some use. Might need the label "rare", or something. Theknightwho (talk) 17:55, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * As I see it, is an orthographic variant for .  I suspect the katakana spelling is used specifically for the "deviant sexual desire" sub-sense of, itself an abbreviation of.
 * That said, I rather doubt that this use of is a borrowing from English. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 18:28, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * "可笑しなヘンタイ図鑑" seems to be about a 変態 (pervert) (obi: 本書で紹介する可笑しなヘンタイたち.; see Google Images). —Fish bowl (talk) 23:44, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair enough - this seems to be an actual use: このジャンルは国際的にヘンタイとして知られるようになり. Theknightwho (talk) 00:17, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

= February 2024 =

開水
Chinese. RfV Sense: "(Wu) to boil water". This is not found as a Verb-Object phrase in most northern Wu varieties checked so far, rather only glossed as "boiled water" instead. Musetta6729 (talk) 09:45, 3 February 2024 (UTC)


 * 上海话大词典, p. 70: "㊁ k‘ᴇ44 sɿ34 水烧开了：～了 水开了 . " — justin(r)leung { (t...) 04:50, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I think this entry should maybe be rephrased then, and I would even go so far to say it might be SoP.
 * This would mean not "to boil water" but "(of water) to be boiling" in Shanghainese.
 * It would be analogous to something like 水開了 but in a 王冕死了父親-esque word order, and seeing that stuff like 水開 or 水滾 aren't entries I'm not sure if this warrants an entry either. I would argue 開水了 isn't even a very common word order in Shanghainese - Qian could have put the alternative meaning in to clarify on the potential impact that using LPS or RPS can have on how the phrase is interpreted. Musetta6729 (talk) 02:32, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

燂
Chinese. RfV senses: (Shanghainese) "to simmer with low heat"; "to simmer slowly". The word exists, but generally read 7toq, and written as something more akin to 篤 instead.

Also 醃燂鮮 and 腌燂鲜 need to be verified. All three entries were formerly submitted to Requests for Deletion for the same reason.

The compound 醃燂鮮, namely, has very few hits on google, with the first noteworthy page being an archive of an internet source on wu-chinese.org.

This reads: " 燂：用小火慢慢煮. 如：“腌燂鲜”（一种有名的汤）. "

It seems to me that whoever created these entries followed this source and incorrectly attributed the character 燂 to this sense, a character neither common nor plausibly linked etymologically to the actual entry. — Musetta6729 (talk) 10:09, 3 February 2024 (UTC)


 * RFV failed. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 15:24, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

醃燂鮮/腌燂鲜
Moved from RFD. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 15:19, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

克裡
There seem to be some legitimate uses of 克裡, which I've put down at Citations:克裡. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 22:41, 20 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I would still treat it as a misspelling. —Fish bowl (talk) 21:17, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Based on what? — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:48, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Based on the evaluations by Kethyga, Ywhy (implied), and Kungming2 that using 裡 is unusual, which presumably would also be reflected in low usage numbers compared to 里. —Fish bowl (talk) 21:22, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

佩裡
Chinese. Moved from RFD, originally requested by. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 16:37, 17 February 2024 (UTC)


 * I agree, 裡 is very strange in transliteration and I'm not seeing too many examples in Chinese-language media. The main examples I can see are in Western publications with Chinese articles like the WSJ/NYT, and there I suspect it's the result of a very lazy conversion from simplified to traditional. Kungming2 (talk) 02:51, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

慶尚北
Chinese. Tagged by but not listed. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 17:22, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

愚童
Japanese. Same concern as Talk:瑞山: Buddhist name, this time for. 内山愚童, https://kotobank.jp/word/内山愚童-1058031: 幼名は慶吉 + 宝増寺の住職だった坂詰孝童のもとで得度し、天室愚童を名乗った. —Fish bowl (talk) 00:08, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

家達
Japanese. Was this name borne by anyone besides ? —Fish bowl (talk) 00:11, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

家茂, 家定
Same concern; ;. —Fish bowl (talk) 00:11, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I can only find and  albeit with shuffled word order. -- Ywhy (talk) 22:36, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

= March 2024 =

E͘
Hokkien. Apparently used for Zhangzhou POJ. Pinging as the creator. Theknightwho (talk) 19:04, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The only place I've seen this is in "The Eclectic Nature of Penang Hokkien Vocabulary, Its Historical Background and Implications for Character Writing" by Catherine Churchman. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 03:13, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

馬
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "horse-shaped". — justin(r)leung { (t...) 17:07, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

백
Korean. Rfv-sense: is this term really used to refer to plastic bags outside of the compound 쇼핑백? Lunabunn (talk) 22:28, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

中原話
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "Mandarin Chinese". RcAlex36 (talk) 06:52, 20 March 2024 (UTC)


 * > 地处中原的山西为什么不说中原话？是五胡乱华的结果吗？(Link}, as contrasted with Jin Chinese.
 * Noting that ZH WP redirects 中原話 to 中原官話, which is also why I decided to put it there instead of solely the Dungan meaning. Open otherwise to just putting "the language of the Central Plains", which wouldn't necessarily mean Mandarin (historically). Kungming2 (talk) 00:01, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Most usage of 中原話 I see seems to be actually referring to 中原官話 specifically? It would be best if we could find durably archived usage of it referring to Mandarin (in general or Standard Mandarin specifically?). — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:16, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

다마
Korean. Rfv-sense: "penis pearl." what? Lunabunn (talk) 18:49, 25 March 2024 (UTC)


 * If from Japanese slang, this might mean — see also . ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 23:58, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

= April 2024 =

唇
Toku-No-Shima. Tagged by but not listed. This, that and the other (talk) 22:54, 2 April 2024 (UTC)


 * You added . This form does not appear in Thorpe 1983, Hirayama 1986, nor Uwano's works (Asama dialect). Chuterix (talk) 23:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Inogawa has sïba [sɨba], but I find no palatalized variant. Chuterix (talk) 21:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Pellard cites it (in French) here: https://theses.hal.science/tel-00444150/file/ogami-cpr.pdf at page 269 as belonging to the Kametsu dialect. Kwékwlos (talk) 22:12, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * If Pellard cites a Kametsu form, it's (almost) certainly from Hirayama 1986. I did a relook at Hirayama 1986, and surely enough, sïbya appears alongside sïba! I'll remove the RFV shortly.
 * "〔徳之島〕シゥビャ⸣ [sï⸢bja] (名) ①舌. [...]②言葉. [...] シゥバ⸣ [sï⸢ba] (名) シゥビャ⸣と同じ. [...]"
 * Cheers! Chuterix (talk) 22:36, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

線索
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "information; message; news; intelligence". Removed out of process by, so I'm bringing it here for verification. This sense seems to correspond to 消息；情报 found in Hanyu Da Cidian. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 13:34, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

プトラー
Japanese. Derogatory nickname for Vladimir Putin.

Hot word from 2022. I found one (sorta – journalist's translation of a protest sign in English) usage plus one mention in March 2022, but nothing after that year. Cnilep (talk) 08:37, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

RFV failed. Cnilep (talk) 03:29, 26 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Do even Twitter ( X ) tweets/posts give RFV pass? or no? Chuterix (talk) 06:07, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Per WT:ATTEST, "online-only sources may also contribute towards attestation" if there is consensus and they can be archived (e.g. in The Internet Archive). I didn't even see uses on Twitter – but I didn't specifically search there, either. Cnilep (talk) 06:26, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * https://twitter.com/search?q=%E3%83%97%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC&src=recent_search_click&f=live
 * E.g. a post from 7:34 AM June 26 (CST):
 * プトラーと臭菌ぺーを始末したら世界規模で無効化しないと文明が滅びる (If we deal with the stinky moldy bleh and Putler, when cannot disable the global scale, civilization will be gone.) Chuterix (talk) 20:23, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Cnilep Also, Twitter became crap after Elon Musk acquired Twitter and changed it to X; considering you said you didn't specifically search there, it may just be a failure of indexing, because login is required :( Chuterix (talk) 20:24, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Couldn't find in Google Books. Chuterix (talk) 20:25, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

밝쥐
Korean. Supposedly an obsolete spelling of.

This spelling seems to be absent from any EMoK and 20c. MoK corpus I can access, nor do I see it listed in 큰사전 or 조선어사전. A Google search doesn't seem to hit anything, either.


 * Probably another MK entry inappropriately created as modern Korean, like 갋다. —Fish bowl (talk) 00:12, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

= May 2024 =

白苹
Chinese. Originally listed as RFD by : "Non-standard simplified form. I just created a page with the right simplified form and bidirectionally linked it to the main entry 白蘋. Now this old page created by a bot should be able to get deleted." — justin(r)leung { (t...) 18:00, 8 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Appreciate a lot. Not until this day when I came across the entry of 佔领 did I realise there is actually a possible option to mark it as non-standard simplified form, and now I'm wondering if it would be better to make the main entry shown and linked with this entry like what's done on the main entry of which I mentioned above. Maraschino Cherry (talk) 16:05, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

光復香港、時代革命
Chinese. Tagged for RFV when created by an IP. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 18:07, 8 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete Encyclopedic content. Mahogany115 (talk) 10:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

殺漢滅回
Chinese. Tagged for RFV when created by an IP. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 18:08, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

ウィキ百科
Japanese. "Wikipedia". —Fish bowl (talk) 22:39, 12 May 2024 (UTC)


 * This does come up with over 5K ostensible hits at . Nothing yet at . ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:40, 5 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The Google hits (which is actually 1 mere page, both unexpanded and expanded) are all for the generic phrase ウィキ百科事典, composed of 1. presumably-machine-translated mobile app descriptions; 2. mirrors of Japanese-language Wikimedia-family-of-websites content; 1 list of tags in a journal article ウィキ, 百科事典; 1 vector image website. —Fish bowl (talk) 04:03, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

入幕
Japanese. Rfv-sense:advancing to the first grade. This word seems to mean “promoted to makuuchi” and I've never seen any usage out of sumo.--Mahogany115 (talk) 09:07, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

全国
Japanese, the reading zengoku. Not present in any monolingual dictionary and was likely aped from JMDict which removed it years ago. lattermint (talk) 23:13, 15 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I can't find much evidence of this. This NHK publication (https://www.nhk.or.jp/bunken/research/kotoba/pdf/20150130_1.pdf) lists a reading of ぜんごく (zengoku), but also notes that this was not approved as a pronunciation to use in broadcasts by a meeting of the 放送用語委員会 / Broadcasting Terminology Committee in late 1939 or early 1940 (page 29 of the PDF, right-hand bordered box, roughly halfway down; search for ぜんごく to find it quickly).  I take from this that a zengoku pronunciation existed at that time, but that it was uncommon and proscribed.  Unsure if there are any dialectal aspects to this, nor if this pronunciation is still current. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:37, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * In some pre-WWII books, ぜんごく appears as part of ruby text of "全國に亘る所の組織連絡", "全國的に力ある團体" , and "目下全國の農村を督勵して" . Whym (talk) 11:59, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

荷蘭蔥
Chinese. Rfv-sense: Persian onion (Allium hollandicum). — justin(r)leung { (t...) 15:42, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

なば
Japanese. Rfv-quote: Myogoki. Still no source. Where are you Aramaki Morozov?

= June 2024 =

中華膠
Chinese. WT:DEROG. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 16:04, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Not my fight but fwiw there's apparently an entire thoroughly sourced Wiki article on it. — LlywelynII  21:38, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

鐵膠
Chinese. WT:DEROG — justin(r)leung { (t...) 16:06, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Cited. The current quotes are probably enough for Cantonese (LDL), even though they are not all durably archived (the HK01 quote is probably not durably archived, the 2016 quote might be disputable), nor are they completely independent (the two quotes from 2022 both have to do with Aaron Kei). — justin(r)leung { (t...) 14:57, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * (Actually, even the 2021 article mentions Aaron Kei...) — justin(r)leung { (t...) 15:46, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

花瑠瑠
Japanese. Kanji for "Honolulu": 日系人の間では、「花瑠瑠」の表記が当てられる場合もある. [a sentence sloppily copy-pasted from Japanese Wikipedia]. There's 2 hits in https://lab.ndl.go.jp/dl/ for 花瑠々/花瑠瑠, of which one is from (which is pretty significant, but still just 1 hit) and one is actually 朝顏の花. [chapter end;]琉球處分以後[chapter title, misprinted as 琉琉～.]. Is it used in modern overseas publications? The Google results seem to be polluted by mentions ("did you know there's kanji for Honolulu?") —Fish bowl (talk) 05:15, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

熱狗
Chinese. Rfv-sense: (Hong Kong Cantonese, politics, derogatory) Civic Passion, or its member. WT:DEROG. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 08:30, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Cited. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 00:57, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

直播 as a translation of
added by in. —Fish bowl (talk) 21:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Unsubstantiated. Consider 、、 instead. -- Ywhy (talk) 22:30, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Ya, unsubstantiated, as best I can find.
 * seems to pull up only instances about 直 ("directly") 播 ("sowing"), with regard for how best to plant — currently sense #2 at . Not seeing anything about live streaming in Japanese contexts.
 * I'll remove from the translations at . ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:09, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

しょゝゝ
Japanese. Talk:しょゝゝ. —Fish bowl (talk) 03:43, 11 June 2024 (UTC)


 * @Fish bowl Looking at this, I think it should be, since the iteration mark applies to the mora. GBooks snippet view isn't working for me, but it certainly seems a lot more promising based on the initial results. Theknightwho (talk) 20:26, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

終極幸福
Chinese. "Eudaimonia". RcAlex36 (talk) 04:22, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I've no time to add quotes right now, but there are a bunch of uses here and here, if anyone else wants to do it. Theknightwho (talk) 04:33, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

天仙
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "Heavenly Immortals, Celestial Immortals". Never heard these meanings before, I suspect they are made up by a Buddhist user who creates poor-quality entries at viwikt. – Nguyên Hưng Trần (talk) 14:05, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * This sense was removed by before being undone by . According to  on zh wikipedia, the Taoist book 重陽真人金關玉鎖訣 classifies 神仙 into various categories, including 鬼仙, 地仙, 神仙, 天仙, and 劍仙. I do not know how important that book is to Taoism, but this is likely a technical Taoist term. Quotation:
 * --kc_kennylau (talk) 01:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * --kc_kennylau (talk) 01:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

dior
Chinese. Pronunciation spelling of 屌 (“fucking”), representing Nanjing Mandarin Chinese. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 02:20, 13 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Might have spawned from a meme with the title "眼睛一闭，关我dior事". (This is not a vote for or against.) --kc_kennylau (talk) 00:56, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

革命的
Chinese.

—Fish bowl (talk) 23:15, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

喀拉幹
Chinese. RcAlex36 (talk) 09:19, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Are you able to provide any Chinese quotations? RcAlex36 (talk) 16:20, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It's readily googleable on its own and as "喀拉幹 Zhangjiakou" or "喀拉干 Zhangjiakou". What's the supposed issue, or should it be left as 干 in traditional characters and the others are mistaken hypercorrections? — LlywelynII  21:24, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The fact that it's not attested in historical Chinese texts should hint that this word was not used in Chinese. It's merely a transcription of the Mongolian word in the Chinese language, and some Google results explicitly say so. Are you able to provide any durably archived Chinese quotations that feature the use of 喀拉幹? RcAlex36 (talk) 06:07, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It should be cited (Citations:喀拉幹). However, it is indeed very rare and basically only found in works in translation from English (as a translation of Kalgan), or as mentions as a Mongolian transcription. Based on this, I would say it is highly unlikely that the English word comes from Chinese. I can't seem to find any uses of the particular form 喀拉幹, but all the works I've cited are in simplified Chinese, which means we can't determine whether the traditional Chinese form should be 幹 or 干. I think it would depend on how the term is read, gàn or gān. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 15:11, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

⑨
Japanese,  character. It appears that the provided quote is from fandom work and is not independent from the Touhou universe. A Google search also reveals little independent quotes. The sense likely fails WT:FICTION.廣九直通車 (talk) 09:45, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The same could be said for most of Category:en:Fictional characters. I think it's natural that X fictional work character would be mentioned among the X fandom. —Fish bowl (talk) 01:56, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

羅省枝利
Chinese. Is this a typo of ? RcAlex36 (talk) 16:53, 19 June 2024 (UTC)


 * (FWIW, 羅省枝利 appears in the reference used at 羅府, but it could also be a misprint OFC. —Fish bowl (talk) 19:28, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

僭
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "(Hong Kong) Short for 僭建." Tagged by but not listed. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:07, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

鬼
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "goblin". Tagged by an IP but not listed. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:09, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

ラー・イラーハ・イッラッラー ムハンマドゥン・ラスールッラー
Japanese. A recitation of. It seems to be missing two words, but even the complete form seems likely to be very rare. Theknightwho (talk) 16:21, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Even though this is written in kana, this isn't Japanese, any more than lā ʔilāha ʔillā llāhu muḥammadun rasūlu llāhi is English.
 * I don't think this needs verification at all: this is just transcription of a foreign phrase. It's still Arabic, it's just written funny. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:11, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

インナー・リッラーヒ・ワ・インナー・イライヒ・ラージウーン
Japanese. This time for. Theknightwho (talk) 16:25, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Also delete: not Japanese, just a transcription of Arabic. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:12, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

同袍
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "Participants and supporters of the Hanfu Movement" – wpi (talk) 14:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Added by . — justin(r)leung { (t...) 13:33, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for mentioning me, "Participants and supporters of the Hanfu Movement" reference here in People's Daily 汉服为啥越来越火？ and “同袍”用兴趣“玩”出新职业. Allervous (talk) 13:36, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

秋海棠
Chinese. Rfv-sense:" map or territory of the Republic of China before Chinese Civil War"
 * Sense added by . — justin(r)leung { (t...) 15:48, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * This has been used extensively e.g. Mahogany115 (talk) 01:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Cited. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 23:38, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * RFV-passed. G1xyz8123 (talk) 09:38, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

ガラパゴスケータイ
Japanese. Rfv-sense: non-Japanese featurephone.

I can find such examples for ガラケー (Googleは、将来的にKaiOSを介して「検索」「マップ」「YouTube」「アシスタント」などのGoogleサービスを新興国のガラケーユーザーに向けて展開していくことを目的としています.) but not for ガラパゴスケータイ. In general, my observation is that shortened words tend to gain wider meaning than their long forms, probably because shortening makes the etymology less obvious. Whym (talk) 11:38, 29 June 2024 (UTC)


 * "[...] but not for ガラパゴズケータイ."
 * Try . I'm seeing quite a few hits, even at . ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:17, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Does any of those hits uses the term generally, not implying Japanese devices? My question was about the second sense in ガラパゴスケータイ: "(by extension) non-smartphone mobile phone" which does not specify Japan, unlike the first sense. The examples I gave above show the short form is used for devices of non-Japanese manufacturers (because KaiOS is not particularly associated with Japan, and 新興国 suggests countries that don't include Japan), but the same cannot be said for the long form, as far I could see. Whym (talk) 23:23, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

袍子
Chinese. Rfv-sense: (slang) Participants and supporters of the Hanfu Movement. Sense added by. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 13:34, 29 June 2024 (UTC)


 * It is a slang, see 一个野生袍子的汉服日常-中国侨网 (chinaqw.com). Allervous (talk) 13:39, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

高嶺土
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "potter's clay". RcAlex36 (talk) 16:47, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Did you mean for this to be distinct? or was it just confusion, thinking potter's clay was a synonym with kaolin instead of its hypernym? — LlywelynII  21:34, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That edit of mine was made nine years ago. It should clearly be one sense. &#45;--&#62; Tooironic (talk) 09:59, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

熱氣
Chinese. Rfv-sense: food that increases internal heat (e.g. deep-fried food). Only requesting for Cantonese. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 14:27, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

毫
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "0.0001 dollars, yuan, etc.; 0.01 cents, fen, etc. (currency unit)". Added by. RcAlex36 (talk) 15:06, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't know if this counts as a reliable source but here's one: . A quick Google search will show you that 毫 in standard Chinese is 1/10 厘, and 厘 is 1/10 分. The dog2 (talk) 18:58, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The article in your link says "按照大到小的顺序，顺序是每百万美分" and "人民币的基本单位是分，但有时根据需要计算为厘米". I have no idea what they mean. 分, 厘, 毫, 絲 were units of length and weight, while the monetary units were 圓, 角, 分 and 釐, which were in use since the Qing dynasty. As far as I know, the smallest monetary unit defined was 釐. Are you able to provide any quotations that feature the use of 毫 as a unit of money in Mandarin? RcAlex36 (talk) 12:44, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * There are some posts on Chinese blog pages and Weibo such as, and . Also, this definition of 毫 was what I was taught in school. The dog2 (talk) 14:56, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I think the three sites you cited would count as mentions rather than uses. --kc_kennylau (talk) 00:42, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * For this one, it will be hard to find it in actual use to count money today because modern Chinese currency only goes down to 分. We would probably need to look up historical documents to find actual usage on this. Maybe if someone has access to a well-established dictionary, we can look it up in there. The dog2 (talk) 01:19, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

青魚
Chinese. Rfv-sense: mackerel. Alternative form of 鯖魚? Sense added by when the entry was created. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 14:17, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * It seems to come from MDBG, but it would be good to check whether this is actually used. — justin(r)leung { (t...) 05:23, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:Yonaguni romanizations
Everything in these categories.

None of these four Ryukyuan languages have a defined romanisation standard, and it's extremely likely that some entries are out of sync with the current transliteration scheme, because a few people having worked on it in the time since. These entries all exist for two reasons: As such, we need to see some kind of verification for them, or they'll all need to be deleted.
 * 1) Japanese has romanisations, so when the infrastructure was converted to include the Ryukyuan languages as well, the templates were generating romanisation links. That has since been changed so that it only applies to Japanese.
 * 2) Over-keen editors blindly creating romanisation entries as a result.

Note that this is a separate question to where we should lemmatise these languages, as I know the Latin script has been suggested, but I do not want this to be another thread where we dither over what we should do, because this crap has been around for long enough by now and it's time we did something about it. Even if we decided to lemmatise at the Latin script, these half-baked nonsense entries would not be any help to us, because the transliteration scheme is faulty or incomplete for most Ryukyuan languages at the moment, including Okinawan. Theknightwho (talk) 17:36, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

冇事
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "(Cantonese) to have nothing to do; to be free". RcAlex36 (talk) 09:36, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

愚妻
Japanese. Rfv-sense: Added by. —Fish bowl (talk) 03:59, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

知識
Chinese. Rfv-sense: "intellect; intelligence". RcAlex36 (talk) 15:11, 18 July 2024 (UTC)