Wiktionary:Votes/2010-06/Hiding numbers in the table of contents

Hiding numbers in the table of contents

 * Voting on: Hiding the numbers inside the table of contents of mainspace entries. Note: Should this vote pass, an option will be added to WT:PREFS to undo the change, and continue showing the numbers.


 * Vote starts: 00:00, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Vote ends: 24:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Vote created: Yair rand (talk) 07:18, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Discussion:
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] WT:BP
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] Wiktionary talk:Votes/2010-06/Hiding numbers in the table of contents

Support

 * 1) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support Yair rand (talk) 00:18, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support  This is the right way to do it. With CSS instead of hard-coded numbering, everyone can have the numbering style they want (and corresponding numbers on the section headings too). —Michael Z. 2010-06-14 03:52 z 
 * 3) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support Ivan Štambuk 15:37, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support The less distracting things, the better. --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:17, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Why do you consider the numbers distracting? Thryduulf (talk) 08:12, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I consider the whole table of contents distracting. If you look at WT:FEED, you'll see many anons complaining that definitions are hidden away in a pile of information and I agree with them. I would remove ToC altogether. If impossible, I would leave only language names in it (L2). If that's too impossible, at least numbers could go. --Vahagn Petrosyan 09:19, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose  EncycloPetey 04:40, 14 June 2010 (UTC) I don't mind having a preference option to hide them, but I don't think that should be the default.  One (easy to explain) reason that I think this: When basic display functions work differently on various wiki projects it frustrates me, and other projects all display the numbers.  --EncycloPetey 04:40, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose   Those numbers are very useful, I don't know why you would want to remove them. -- Prince Kassad 08:29, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose. Mainly per EncycloPetey, I think that any change to the default presentation of tables of contents should be done at Wikimedia-wide level (e.g. through the ongoing usability changes that will shortly bring us the disaster that is Vector) rather than on a per-project basis. I can't object to an option to remove it for those that want to though, nor an option to have the numbers display in the headings for those that want that. Thryduulf (talk) 11:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Weak oppose Equinox ◑ 11:29, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose  < class="latinx">Ƿidsiþ 15:44, 14 June 2010 (UTC) ...weakly. I would support an option to hide them, but not as default. < class="latinx">Ƿidsiþ 15:44, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 6) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose.  I like the numbers, I use the numbers to make sure I have my header levels right when playing with entries … They're useful.  If you're going to do something, make it so that there's a preference for them to go away.  --Neskaya … gawonisgv? 17:57, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I like the numbers, too, and I use the numbers when editing, too. But editors like you and me can control stuff with PREFS. What we should look for is what non-editor users need (or want): numbers or no numbers. I suspect the answer is "numbers", but I really don't know (which is why I haven't yet voted on this). &#x200b;—msh210℠ 18:00, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Numbers are clarification. I suspect, really, that someone who doesn't edit wants things to be as clear as possible. --Neskaya … gawonisgv? 20:01, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * What do numbers clarify? --Yair rand (talk) 20:02, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose. I like to be able to tell the number of different languages in a page, without having to count them.   AugPi 20:45, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, they can be useful from an editing standpoint, but this is about the default. It would take less time to click the pref to show the numbers than it took to add that oppose vote. --Yair rand (talk) 20:47, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Is there currently a PREF option for switching the numbers off?  AugPi 20:49, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * No, but there will be a PREF option to show the numbers if this vote passes, as explained at the top. --Yair rand (talk) 20:51, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm already used to the numbers, and without a PREFS option for removing them I can't test to see if I would like to have them removed.  AugPi 20:53, 14 June 2010 (UTC)  So even if this vote fails I still think that you should add that PREFS option.   AugPi 20:55, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * To hide the numbers, add the following to user:AugPi/vector.css. (This method alone is not a viable technical solution to change this, because it can't remove or change the hard-coded numbering, just hide it from visual-browser users.)
 * When I tried that line with my vector.css, it didn't seem to work (even after refreshing). Then I tried it with my monobook.css, and (after refreshing) it worked.   AugPi 21:52, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops, so sorry; I guess I'm trying out Vector at the moment but you're still using Monobook. There's some more CSS at the end of my user:Mzajac/vector.css that formats the TOC a bit for clarity. Just a quick draft, but I think it's an improvement. —Michael Z. 2010-06-14 23:13 z 
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose  Robert Ullmann 06:22, 16 June 2010 (UTC) default should be left as is. (a PREFS option to remove them does not require a vote) Robert Ullmann 06:22, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose  Caladon 18:23, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose  Caladon 18:23, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1) [[Image:Symbol abstain vote.svg|20px]] Abstain  Make a preferences option. Jesus. — [&#32;R·I·C&#32;] opiaterein — 15:23, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * We plan to do that anyway. This is about the default setting. I suppose prayer couldn't hurt. —Michael Z. 2010-06-14 15:27 z 
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol abstain vote.svg|20px]] Abstain  I think they clutter the entry for the average user, but they do make the ToC consistent with Wikipedia. --Bequw → τ 20:24, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Why should Wikipedia decide what our format looks like? Maybe they really wanted to change it, but someone said “they do make the ToC consistent with Wiktionary.” —Michael Z. 2010-06-14 21:08 z 
 * Unlikely given view counts. The benefit of the change is too minor. I think we need to remove the amount of rarely-clicked on entries in the ToC. --Bequw → τ 07:06, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Do we actually have any information about what parts of the ToC are clicked on and what aren't? Thryduulf (talk) 16:34, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol abstain vote.svg|20px]] Abstain.  So if the numbers were removed, would they be replaced by bullets?   AugPi 21:11, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * No.  AugPi 21:55, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Decision

 * I'm closing this early because it's pretty obvious that this is a fail, at this point. Does anyone have any other ideas for how to shrink the table of contents, even a little? It's size on many pages is completely ridiculous. Maybe L5 headers could be removed? --Yair rand (talk) 07:12, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * IMO FWIW that closure was premature. &#x200b;—msh210℠ 17:29, 18 June 2010 (UTC)