Wiktionary:Votes/2014-09/Renaming rhyme pages

Renaming rhyme pages

 * Voting on: Renaming all rhyme pages.
 * Proposal 1: Change the colon after language name to slash (/).
 * Proposal 2: Remove the dash before the last part of the rhyme page name: e.g. "-eɪm" to "eɪm".
 * Note: An example rhyme page name on 1 September 2014 looked like this: Rhymes:English:-eɪm.
 * Note: There are 11269 rhyme pages, located somewhere within Category:Rhymes by language. In particular, there are 4757 English rhyme pages, 1540 Icelandic rhyme pages, and 1378 Czech rhyme pages.
 * Rationale: See Wiktionary talk:Votes/2014-09/Renaming rhyme pages. The voters only vote on the proposed action, not on the rationale.
 * Vote starts: 00:01, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Vote ends: 23:59, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Extended to 23:59, 30 November 2014 (UTC), especially since the votes on the first proposal are few and inconclusive; some abstains would help.
 * Vote extended to 23:59, 30 December 2014. (UTC) --Dan Polansky (talk) 22:52, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Vote extended to 23:59, 30 January 2015 (UTC) --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Vote created: Dan Polansky (talk) 17:29, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Discussion:
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] Beer parlour/2014/September
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] Requests for moves, mergers_and_splits
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] Wiktionary talk:Votes/2014-09/Renaming rhyme pages

Support proposal 1

 * 1)  Even if it wasn't a fait accompli I would still have supported it. This, that and the other (talk) 10:24, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 2) Support Having a slash (/) after the language name is a natural extension of our appendix names like "Appendix:Frankish/kawa". — Keφr 07:55, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * , works better because of the subpage system and templates like . Renard Migrant (talk) 14:05, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * 1)  Lmaltier (talk) 16:35, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * 2)  per Kephir. DCDuring TALK  16:41, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * 3)  per above. Gizza (t)(c) 09:36, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Oppose proposal 1

 * 1)  Having colon  after the language name is a natural extension of our category names like "Category:en:Physics". --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:58, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * But we only do that with language codes, while the Rhymes pages currently use language names. --WikiTiki89 20:19, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Abstain from proposal 1

 * 1)  It really makes no difference to me. --WikiTiki89 14:50, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 2)  Me either. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:25, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Support proposal 2

 * 1) Support, though quite weakly, on the grounds that it makes some string processing simpler. The hyphen carries zero entropy; or in plain English, everyone already knows that we are dealing with suffixes, indicating that explicitly is unnecessary. If we ever find ourselves making pages in rhymes namespace which are not rhymes lists, I might change my mind. — Keφr 07:55, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * You mean that Lua code does not need to drop the leading "-"? That is very straightforward for Lua code to do. Is that the reason why we should not prioritize human ease of recognition of what is presented on the user interface? --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:28, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
 * For Lua code this is easy, for plain templates less so. — Keφr 14:20, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Plain templates can call Lua to drop the hyphen (or minus), right? --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:22, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Support. When you look for rhymes, you know what you mean. And it sometimes happens that the rhyme is the complete word pronunciation (e.g. it), which makes the - meaningless. Lmaltier (talk) 16:30, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I think of e.g. "-eɪm" as the regular expression ".*eɪm", where .* also matches an empty string (or think if "*eɪm" if you are used to file name patterns). --Dan Polansky (talk) 22:32, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * This is not the usual meaning of - for suffixes. Therefore, this might be slightly misleading. But the important point is that it's not needed, it would not help anybody. Lmaltier (talk) 22:38, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You are right that the whole word matching the ending is something of an oddity, one which does not happen with morphological suffixes AFAIK. But again, it does not feel like a real problem to me. To your other point: hyphen does help me to immediately recognize what is going on, and I am missing it when I don't see it. So it is not accurate to say it would not help anybody, when it in fact helps at least me. In fact, hyphen is still used in the mainspace: check e.g. name where it says "Rhymes: -eɪm". (It says so now; I cannot rule out a non-consensual change to follow.) The person who originally designed the rhyme pages with hyphen must have felt and perceived the same way as I do. --Dan Polansky (talk) 22:48, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Oppose proposal 2

 * 1)  Makes it clear that we're talking about suffixes. This, that and the other (talk) 10:24, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 2)  What he^ said. --WikiTiki89 14:50, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 3)  The rhyme pages are organized by what is an auditory analogue of a suffix. Since suffixes are usually denoted with a leading dash (e.g. -ness), using dash in rhyme page names seems natural. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:58, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 4)  What they↑ said. &#x200b;—msh210℠ (talk) 12:09, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
 * 5)  Per above. DCDuring TALK  16:43, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Abstain from proposal 2

 * 1)  We aren't talking about suffixes. The /eɪm/ of name isn't a suffix. It's a . But I still don't really care whether that's indicated by a leading hyphen or not. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:27, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * We are talking about auditory analogue of a suffix, not a morphological suffix. --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:10, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * But a hyphen is written, not oral. Renard Migrant (talk) 14:13, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, hyphen is written, so is IPA. So what? Both the hyphen and IPA are written to indicate what is auditory. The hyphen before the IPA suggests that the IPA is not a complete IPA (of a complete word) but rather IPA missing something at the left. --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:17, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * To write "The /eɪm/ of name" is misleading; one should write "the /eɪm/ of /neɪm/". --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:24, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, rather than "suffixes", say "endings". I'm no lexicographer. This, that and the other (talk) 11:34, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * 1)  I agree 100% with Angr. Renard Migrant (talk) 13:51, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Decision

 * Proposal 1 passes (6-2-2 = 75%), proposal 2 fails (2-5-2 = 29%, noting also that one of the support votes was "quite weak"). In my interpretation, this means that Rhymes pages should be named along the lines of . This, that and the other (talk) 05:41, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I'll start moving rhyme pages to this naming scheme. Maybe someone with a bot can help. --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:24, 22 February 2015 (UTC)