Wiktionary:Votes/2023-02/Removing the horizontal rule

Removing the horizontal rule
Voting on: Removing the horizontal rule between language section because of its redundancy. Furthermore, it has been assured that the visual outcome can be reached with a simple CSS snippet. See BP discussion link below for more.

Schedule:
 * Vote starts: 00:00, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Vote ends: 23:59, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Vote created: Catonif (talk) 20:13, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Discussion:
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]]  and prior discussions linked there.

Support

 * 1) . Annoying for new users to remember, apparently a hassle for bot operators, does nothing visually that can't be achieved automatically by CSS. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 00:56, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * , same reasons as Al-Muqanna. Whoop whoop pull up Bitching Betty ⚧️ Averted crashes 02:28, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  &mdash; S URJECTION  / T / C / L / 05:14, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 2) . Catonif (talk) 06:52, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 3)  Since another solution has been presented. Vininn126 (talk) 08:16, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 4)  Per the above points and my discussion in the abstain section below. --Overlordnat1 (talk) 12:07, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 5)  Same reasons as Al-Muqanna.--Ser be être 是 talk/stalk 12:25, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 6)  Always found the bar annoying. Nicodene (talk) 14:30, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 7)  Easier for humans, easier for bots JeffDoozan (talk) 18:36, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 8) . &mdash; excarnateSojourner (talk &middot; contrib) 18:53, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 9)  and good riddance. Ioaxxere (talk) 19:44, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 10)  Per everyone else's reasons. Benwing2 (talk) 03:34, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 11)  — Fenakhay ( حيطي · مساهماتي ) 03:50, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 12)  Allahverdi Verdizade (talk) 10:34, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 13)  Bogdan (talk) 10:51, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 14)  ←₰-→  Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk)  17:42, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 15)  Since the horizontal lines will still show up on the entry, and there's never a scenario where an L2 header wouldn't require a horizontal line, then there's no harm in passing the repetitive work off of the editor and onto CSS. Just get rid of the horizontal rule altogether.  – Guitarmankev1 (talk) 14:15, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 16)  per above. Megathonic (talk) 14:56, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 17)  I guess we can have better results with CSS and an informational value is not there. Fay Freak (talk) 14:37, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 18)  We can achieve a similar result more efficiently. John Cross (talk) 08:37, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 19)  Kinda thing that should be handled with CSS or header templates so it can be modified without a bot run. kwami (talk) 07:17, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 20)  Was ugly for readers, and annoying for all editors, not only new ones, to check every time whether they needed to place it on top or bottom of their new entry. Daniel.z.tg (talk) 04:49, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 21)  - Sarilho1 (talk) 23:36, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 22)  with the CSS snippet, but oppose otherwise. DCDuring (talk) 20:30, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) . Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 19:18, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Care to explain why? Vininn126 (talk) 23:24, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Since I don't use bots, this horizontal line doesn't bother me. On the contrary, the line is visually pleasing. I don't want this thing to be removed because of bots. Since this line is useful and pleasant, it cannot be a redundant thing, as it is said in the description of the vote. Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 11:59, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The proposal is to generate the same line by CSS automatically so whatever visual pleasantness it has is not going to change. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 00:54, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The voting description says otherwise. Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 14:03, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * As says in the voting description, "Furthermore, it has been assured that the visual outcome can be reached with a simple CSS snippet." —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 15:38, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  RichardW57m (talk) 11:32, 1 March 2023 (UTC).  I find the quadruple hyphen and the blank lines above and below useful when editing.  When I add a new language section, I generally start by editing an adjacent language section to include the new section above or below.

Abstain

 *  . If it helps bots then I suppose we should change how we do things but how would I go about adding the dividers with the new system (assuming I remember about them in the first place)? Would I click on 'edit' and then type the code beginning with 'body.ns-0'? --Overlordnat1 (talk) 09:43, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Im pretty sure you wont have to type anything. The whole point of this is to simplify. The CSS code above is not needed, not even for bots ... its what we're going to offer as an option to add to your custom CSS if you want to see the extra line on the screen once we make the switch. — Soap — 11:01, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * In my user preferences? --Overlordnat1 (talk) 11:36, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * yeah, it should be under the Appearance tab in the preferences screen.Seems to be the same on both desktop and mobile. — Soap — 11:58, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Changing vote to support then. --Overlordnat1 (talk) 12:06, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  I find them useful when editing but I guess if it harms our bot jobs then they should go. Thadh (talk) 10:53, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 2)  No strong feelings on the issue either way. — Sgconlaw (talk) 21:40, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * , in all honesty, I actually like the horizontal line but if there is an alternative, then I guess it's fine. --Robbie SWE (talk) 18:28, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * , I also like the separator, but this is just a mild preference and good arguments for the removal have been presented. tbm (talk) 14:07, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * , I find the four hyphens to be a useful visual separator of language sections when I'm looking at the wikicode of the page, and I also find the horizontal line before a new language section useful when looking at the displayed page (and auto-generating a horizontal line in the displayed text of the page only solves the latter issue), but if it's inconvenient for users who run bots, I don't feel strongly about it. - -sche (discuss) 20:28, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * : If the four dashes are to be automatically generated, fair enough. There is an issue with present use where a blank line is left above the dashes, no visible gap occurs between the entry above and the dashes, if however two blank lines are left that's what you get, a two-line gap. I would like to see a gap, but why does that happen? DonnanZ (talk) 16:01, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 1)  When editing or adding a new language entry, it is useful. --Gorec (talk) 17:39, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 2)  It is not a big deal either way Pious Eterino (talk) 13:30, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Decision
Passed 24-2-8. Van Man Fan (talk) 23:59, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Now that the bot did his run, someone with editing permission should probably amend WT:EL. Catonif (talk) 10:42, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, there's also WT:NORM. Catonif (talk) 19:38, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Both have now been done. bd2412 T 13:17, 25 March 2023 (UTC)