Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2009-12/Addition of Examples header to ELE

Addition of Examples header to ELE

 * Voting on: Adding a "Samples" L4 (L5 w/ etymologies) subheading to WT:ELE. Changes include:
 * Listing "Samples" below "Quotations" in WT:ELE.
 * Adding the following section below WT:ELE.
 * Sample media, such as pictures and sound, are often shown on the right-hand side of a page next to their corresponding sense. This is both to better utilize page space and to set them apart from quotations that are left-aligned between senses. If the layout of the page is such that these samples are no longer next to their corresponding sense (such as when there are multiple images), or if, for any other reason, these media would look more pleasing in their own section and left-justified, they may be moved to a Samples section and left-justified. Such a section can also be used for other types of examples of a word's referent, such as a sample split infinitive in the entry split infinitive, although these, too, can be on the right-hand side of the page near its corresponding sense.


 * Vote starts: 00:00, 03 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Vote ends: 24:00, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Vote created: Bequw → ¢ • τ 23:30, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Discussion:
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] WT:BP

Support

 * 1) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support Bequw → ¢ • τ 10:30, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Just a note: Bequw is the one who changed the text of the vote to be for "Samples" rather than "Examples", and did not in the same edit change his vote, so this is an extant support vote. &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 15:44, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, yes I support the new vote as well. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 18:07, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support. I can't feign enthusiasm for this — we already have a complicated set of distinctions between "example sentences", "quotations" or "citations", and "references", and the =Examples= header is hardly unambiguous — but it seems that we do need something along these lines. —Ruakh TALK 21:23, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support, although |I'm not overjoyed with the choice of wording in the proposed header. &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 16:01, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * If the wording of the proposal is changed so the header is "Sample media" or "Samples" or "Example media" or "illustrations", I also support. &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 16:03, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ditto. —Ruakh TALK 00:13, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Conditional Support as ===Samples=== or the like. 13:37, 17 January 2010 (UTC) Edited. DAVilla 06:05, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]]  Conditional support as per DAVilla – I very much like the section suggestion, but not the name: “Gallery” or “Media” are both unambiguous, while “Examples” is very confusing. New “Samples” is better; still a bit ambiguous, which is to be expected if trying to encompass “Pictures” (+ “Videos”) and “Sounds” under one heading. —Nils von Barth (nbarth) (Follow-up: talk) 04:06, 19 January 2010 (UTC) (—Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 03:48, 20 January 2010 (UTC))
 * 3) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|20px]] Support with reservations about the name of the section, but having any section for media seems now preferable to have no section at all. If accepted, the voted proposal will improve the "head" entry: now, the image gallery in the "head" entry is located at "quotations" where it does not belong. See also my canceled Abstain below. --Dan Polansky 13:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: The large periodic table in the entry "periodic table" would nicely fit into a dedicated section "Samples" or "Examples". --Dan Polansky 08:28, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose WikiPedant 19:31, 3 January 2010 (UTC) This header will cause confusion with regard to example sentences (some editors will start including e.g. sentences here, and that does not seem to be the intent).  Maybe a better name for the header would solve this, but our entries are already starting to suffer from "header clutter" and I'm unpersuaded that we really need this one.
 * Do you have some way of resolving the apparent incongruity of image galleries under head and A? --Bequw → ¢ • τ 07:11, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose  "...these media would look more pleasing in their own section and left-justified..." 100% subjective. — [&#32;R·I·C&#32;] opiaterein — 15:58, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * True, but so is much of what we do, like choosing how to word a definition or what usex or picture to use (part of which is which definition, usex, or picture looks most pleasing to the editor). &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 19:17, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This vote passing will simply give people a reason to add more clunky sections to entries, and further will eventually bring up more problems such as the sorting of media. — [&#32;R·I·C&#32;] opiaterein — 23:40, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I doubt that will be a real problem as there have been relatively few debates recently about the the order of definitions, which is much more important. As for the clunkiness, if there are many people that agree with you, we could have a gallery template that is CSS-hiddable like we do for translations. This vote does not give any formatting details, just a place to media that doesn't fit alongside its corresponding definition. --Bequw → τ 02:41, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose. There are too many L3 headers in between Usage notes and Translations as it is. Also I think this new one would encourage more unnecessary images. (Removing some of the pictures at head would be an improvement of the entry the way I see it.) --Thrissel 00:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Looking at head I can see why you're concerned. But if the issue is that there are too many unhelpful images, the fix is to remove them (since there's no CFI for images it's technically and bureaucratically easy to remove unhelpful images) not to get rid of ways of organizing legitimate content. Since Wiktionary is not paper I think images are one of the ways that we can truly distinguish ourselves from other dictionaries and fulfill our core mission of defining words. The scope of this header is also quite small. Currently, only ~0.014% pages have an entry with 3 or more images (223/1,566,625). --Bequw → τ 02:37, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose EncycloPetey 16:53, 30 January 2010 (UTC) I don't care for the header name or the proposed placement after Quotations. --EncycloPetey 16:53, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * What would be better (for either)? --Bequw → τ 20:03, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose  -- Prince Kassad 19:23, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]] Oppose  -- Prince Kassad 19:23, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1) [[Image:Symbol abstain vote.svg|20px]] Abstain < class="latinx">Ƿidsiþ 16:28, 14 January 2010 (UTC) I note the arguments in favour, but still, I can't help feeling we need another L3 heading like we need a huge hole in the head: page. < class="latinx">Ƿidsiþ 16:28, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Symbol abstain vote.svg|20px]] Abstain Dan Polansky 11:48, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Having a dedicated section for image galleries, sound recordings such as that for "laughter", and texts exemplifying linguistic concepts such as "busy as a bee" at "bee" "simile", sounds good, but the name "Examples" is at best good enough. --Dan Polansky 11:48, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I assume you mean "at 'simile'", not "at 'bee'", right? &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 15:43, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Right, I meant "simile" :). --Dan Polansky 09:38, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Responding to the change of the section name from "Examples" to "Samples": I think "Samples" is even worse than "Examples", while I admit that "Samples" can not so easily be confused with "example sentence". In any case, I non-enthusiastically support both "Examples" and "Samples" by abstaining. --Dan Polansky 09:44, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol abstain vote.svg|20px]] Abstain Razorflam<b style="color:#000">e</b> 16:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC) per Widsith.  Both the support and oppose votes have valid points, so I am unsure about which to do, so therefore, I have decided to abstain.  Cheers, <b style="color:#00C">Raz</b><b style="color:#009">or</b><b style="color:#006">fl</b><b style="color:#003">am</b><b style="color:#000">e</b> 16:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) [[Image:Symbol abstain vote.svg|20px]] Abstain <b style="color:#00C">Raz</b><b style="color:#009">or</b><b style="color:#006">fl</b><b style="color:#003">am</b><b style="color:#000">e</b> 16:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC) per Widsith.  Both the support and oppose votes have valid points, so I am unsure about which to do, so therefore, I have decided to abstain.  Cheers, <b style="color:#00C">Raz</b><b style="color:#009">or</b><b style="color:#006">fl</b><b style="color:#003">am</b><b style="color:#000">e</b> 16:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Decision
6–5–2: no consensus is a failure. &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 17:23, 1 February 2010 (UTC)