Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2016-02/Interwiki links

Interwiki links
Voting on: Editing WT:EL.

Current text:

An Interwiki link is a link to an entry of the same spelling in another Wiktionary. The links start with the (usually two-letter) language code. The syntax is:
 * Interwiki links

lc:ForeignPageTitle

The result will be that the entry at friend can link to the French Wiktionnaire’s version of “friend” using friend. And the entry at ami can link to the French Wiktionnaire’s version of “ami” using ami. So, on the English wiktionary, there is both friend and ami.

Where such links have been established a list of the linked languages will appear together at a place that depends on the skin that you are using; usually the far left column below the search box. Clicking on a language link will bring you to the entry named ForeignPageTitle in that language on that other Wiktionary.

Interwiki links are best placed as the last item in an entry alphabetically, each on its own line for ease of editing. Some of these links are generated by a bot that compares the various Wiktionary projects.

Newcomers sometimes inadvertently remove Interwiki links, perhaps because they don’t appear to do anything on the page. A single polite explanation is normally successful in curbing that practice.

Note also that for main namespace entries, interwikis are not used in the translation section. An interwiki link provides a link to this same page, explained and written in a different language. Experimental translation interwiki links that need to stay in the translations section must begin with a colon before the language code. The colon has the effect of forcing the link to appear where it is written.

Lastly, note that interwiki links should only be entered manually if you are certain no interwiki bot runs for a given language; interwiki links are normally entered by bots in an automated fashion.

Proposed text:


 * Interwiki links

Interwiki links are used to point to the same word in foreign language Wiktionaries, and are listed in the left hand side of the entry. To point to the page in the Spanish Wiktionary, use: palabra


 * Interwiki links point to the entry spelled exactly in the same way in the foreign language Wiktionaries.
 * Interwiki links use the sorting order from MediaWiki:Interwiki config-sorting order-native-languagename.
 * Interwiki links are maintained by bots; there is usually no need for them to be edited manually.

Rationale:
 * Removing explanations and leaving only the actual regulations. Suggestion: Keep the explanations in a separate page, such as possibly Help:Interwiki links. (currently a redlink)
 * Another step in the direction of having WT:EL completely voted.

Schedule:
 * Vote starts: 00:00, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Vote ends: 23:59, 21 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Vote created: --Daniel Carrero (talk) 13:09, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Discussion:
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] Beer parlour/2016/February
 * [[Image:Wikt rei-artur3.svg|20px]] Wiktionary talk:Votes/pl-2016-02/Interwiki links

Support

 * 1)  --Daniel Carrero (talk) 05:38, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * 2)  — The proposed text is far better than what's there ATM (so TL;DR… although, I did actually read it). This, that and the other raises some very valid objections in the  section. Since only three users have cast votes hitherto, could we change the proposed text to take account of  observations, Daniel Carrero? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 00:21, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
 * 3)  - The new is better than the old, if possibly imperfect. - TheDaveRoss 00:27, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
 * 4)  But I don't like the phrase "listed in the left hand side of the entry". --WikiTiki89 19:52, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
 * 5)  -Xbony2 (talk) 18:37, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * 6) Moving to  as I'd rather see this pass than fail. The old wording is verbose and not especially helpful. I'd like a follow up vote though if this does pass. This, that and the other (talk) 09:29, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I intend to create a follow-up vote to fix the "left hand side" part. Probably that could even be done with just a BP discussion (that is, without a separate vote), since the idea is just changing the wording a little, this is not about adding/removing the actual rules. That aside, let me know if you'd like to change something else in a follow up vote. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 16:18, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd be interested to know if there is support to change the term used to "interlanguage links", so that might be another thing to vote on. I'll admit that it's bordering on bikeshedding, but as I said below, "interwiki link" is a more general term than "interlanguage link", and this policy section is not talking about interwiki links in general. (After all, it isn't discussing things like wikipedia, which are interwiki links but not interlanguage links.) This, that and the other (talk) 06:35, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
 * 1)  - -sche (discuss) 03:45, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * 2)  —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 03:46, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * : It's better, but could use rewording, as mentioned below by Dan Polansky. — Eru·tuon 19:55, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * : However, it'd be better to have the link to palabra than, but it's a minor thing.
 * BTW, am I allowed to vote? I always forget... --AK and PK (talk) 11:01, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
 * See Votes. Is your first edit made a week earlier then the start of the vote, and do you have more then 50 edits? -Xbony2 (talk) 14:52, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
 * No, permablocked users are not allowed to vote. --WikiTiki89 17:19, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
 * 1)  Andrew Sheedy (talk) 05:53, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  The following is incorrect or misleading: "Interwiki links are used to point to the same word in foreign language Wiktionaries": the links do not connect words but exact spellings. In one commonly used meaning, a word is a set of word forms and not a particular spelling. The first sentence in the original understood this:  "An Interwiki link is a link to an entry of the same spelling in another Wiktionary". Other than that, the reduction of noise is a great improvement, but this is a substantive defect. Luckily enough, no one is going to apply this vote legalistically, or so I hope, but if they did, the wording could cause trouble. --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:47, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The text does mention that the spelling must be the same, so I don't think it is as big of a defect as you make it out to be. --WikiTiki89 15:03, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * 1)  New wording does not improve the page as such. Additionally, removing the explanation does not help new editors. --Neskaya sprecan? 08:00, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
 * 2)  per Neskaya. DCDuring TALK  15:12, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Abstain

 * The proposed text is a lot better than what was there, but it is not ideal. The text "listed in the left hand side of the entry" is rather unclear unless you already know what it means. The text "Interwiki links use the sorting order from MediaWiki:Interwiki config-sorting order-native-languagename." is probably not necessary; it's not a policy statement (even in my broad interpretation of "policy statements"), it's a statement of technical fact. It might be OK to include if more explanation was offered. Additionally, information about the ordering of interwiki links probably belongs on  WT:NORM. (I should also finish by pointing out that these links are correctly called "interlanguage links". "Interwiki links" are links within the running text of a page that point to another wiki, like [[:fr:pin’s]] or [[w:Apple]].) This, that and the other (talk) 02:34, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The sorting order is in fact a policy, not a technical fact. The links are not sorted by the software, but rather appear in the order in which they appear in the wikitext. Thus, the order of the interwikis links is actually maintained by the bots that deal with interwiki links. The order given is the de facto policy, and it shouldn't hurt to make it official. And "interwiki" is not wrong, it is merely less specific. An "interlanguage wikilink" is a type of "interwiki link". But I agree "listed in the left hand side of the entry" is not a good way to describe their location. --WikiTiki89 19:51, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Decision
Passes 10–3 (77%). A number of participants felt that there was further room for improvement, so some kind of followup discussion or vote is in order. This, that and the other (talk) 02:03, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Edited WT:EL accordingly. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 03:30, 22 March 2016 (UTC)