Wiktionary talk:Etymology/language templates

Swiss German
This page does not cover Swiss German as is needed in the etymology of English rösti. &mdash; hippietrail 04:20, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's under the alternate name "Alemannic German" coded as . I've noted the alternate name at WT:LANGNAME. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 15:08, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I finally found it myself too. Wikipedia seems to have some mixing of the names and codes. &mdash; hippietrail 00:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Deletion debate
While useful when we had the Webster 1913 style etymology templates, I don't think WT:ETY/TEMP contains any useful information now. The "Old English"/"Anglo Saxon" confusion is noted at WT:AEN. Since accepts any language code, there is no sense hand creating the list of templates. For an autogenerated list of language codes we have Category:Language templates and for a full list with languages names and duplicated codes we have User:Robert Ullmann/L2. The ISO 639-1/-3/-5 codes are additionally listed on the language name entries for all languages in the WT:ETY/TEMP list (qv English). Exceptions are found at Language codes. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 07:44, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I missed something in that nomination. I'm wikifying a page, including, among other things, converting  to  . I have to look up a bunch of different language and dialect names. Where do I go to for this, assuming this page disappears? &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 19:09, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In other words, I personally use the nominated page very frequently, and wish to know what I can use instead. &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 19:10, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. The page needs updating a bit, sure. But it looks good, tidy and wikified. The information is basically correct, who benefits from its deletion? Mglovesfun (talk) 19:19, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You say "you agree", Mg, but I was merely asking a question. &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 19:21, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Two better ways to go from "French" to  are:
 * Find the ISO 639-1/-3/-5 code from the language name entry (e.g. French). For languages that we don't use the ISO code, see Language codes.
 * User:Robert Ullmann/L2 (or Index to templates/languages)
 * Both of these work for more languages than WT:ETY/TEMP (which only lists 149 languages) and are sustainable. It is not sustainable to try to have a comprehensive, hand-made list of languages in their codes since Category:Language templates already has over 7,000 templates. Why would we want just a random listing of 149 languages? It offers nothing. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 09:21, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * None of those pages lists Yiddish, French, and Late Latin. The nominated page does. Since, as you say, the nominated page is incomplete, ideally we should complete it. Let's say I wanted to look up those three languages, because I was wikifying the etymology of the entry a meydl n'est pas une anathema (an English proverb from, you guessed it, Yiddish, French, and Late Latin). So I first look at the page [[Yiddish]] and see two different ISO codes for Yiddish, plus one each for Eastern Yiddish and Western Yiddish. Which to use? I don't know, so I check the next page you, Bequw, list, viz [[Wiktionary:Language codes]]. (I should check that even if Yiddish has only one ISO code, since you say that's where to look for languages for which we don't use the ISO code, and I don't know whether Yiddish is one such.) My browser's "find"/"search" function, applied to that page and "Yiddish", yields nothing, so I attack the third choice, [[User:Robert Ullmann/L2]]. It again gives two codes for Yiddish, so, finally, I try the fourth page, [[Wiktionary:Index to templates/languages]]. This, finally, tells me that "[w]here a language has both [a two-letter ISO 639-1 and a three-letter ISO 639-3 code], the use of the two-letter code is preferred", and tells me that that's yi, which I use. Next, for French, I get smart and check the last page first, so use fr. Finally, Late Latin. [[Wiktionary:Index to templates/languages]] doesn't list anything for it, so I work backwards, checking RU's list (again nothing), and then [[Wiktionary:Language codes]], which, finally, tells me to use . That's a lot of work. I think that the nominated page should be kept and expanded to include all languages and dialects for which we currently have a code, or converted to a page that clearly gives directions on how to find such a code. It should also include the documentation for, or a good link thereto. &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 17:40, 11 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Your hypothetical user had not read the policy page dealing with language codes (WT:LANGCODE) yet wanted to use them. Of course he was confused. The behavioral solution for this confusion is to read the policy page first (just as we expect editors to have read WT:ELE). An additional page will in the long run increase confusion (more policy pages, more linkrot/maintenance, etc.). I agree our other pages should be improved to the benefit novices. I've clarified on WT:LANGCODE that ISO 639 codes should be listed on language entries and updated WT:ETY to our current usage of language codes. Both of those pages already mention . If you foresee continued confusion, however, please improve them. I asked for UllmannBot to list dialect & language family codes on Index to templates/languages when it regenerates the page. That would be what you'd want right? Because I cannot foresee any editor hand-adding the thousands of languages + codes that we use on Wiktionary to WT:ETY/TEMP. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 19:59, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Fine, thanks. Redirect to WT:LANGCODE (rather than delete, because it has so many incoming links, and because people may seek the help this page affords). &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 16:36, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I've turned it into a page that transcludes Index to templates/languages and the dialect and family code exceptions from Language codes. It shows (almost) all possible codes that can be used with (it's missing the standard ISO 639-5 codes because there's no auto-generated list of codes&names from the "Template:etyl:*" namespace). Hopefully that's the best of both worlds. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 20:12, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Bequw. &#x200b;— msh210 ℠ 17:25, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Both RU and CI seem to manage transitions with more grace than this. I had assumed this would be handled in the way that they have handled it, long transition, no scolding, some thought about automated replacement. I will henceforth make it a point of opposing any change that is accompanied by any risk of rough transitions and will be suspicious of recommendations by those who have a history of advocating such. I have wasted a lot of keystrokes trying to comply with various requests for uniformity and standardization. No more. DCDuring TALK 15:37, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry to be ill-tempered, but I am getting tired of doing more typing for the benefit of some naming scheme. I probably just need something like the old keyboard macros. Now if I could only find either what is built into Windows or is available open-source.... DCDuring TALK 19:05, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Unneeded & unwanted AFAICS. —Μετάknowledge discuss/deeds 06:04, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. The current templates will be converted to Lua at some point, and then we can just generate a list like this automatically, like at WT:LL. 23:47, 2 August 2013 (UTC)