Wiktionary talk:SC

RFM discussion: September 2010
I'd appreciate if the following shortcuts pointed to the these specific pages:
 * WT:WT to Shortcuts
 * WT:SC to Scripts

To achieve this, the following changes have to be made: --Daniel. 18:40, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Removing the shortcut WT:SC from Wiktionary:Shortcut.
 * Making WT:SC be the shortcut to Wiktionary:Scripts.
 * Renaming Wiktionary:Shortcut to Wiktionary:Shortcuts.
 * What's the benefit to users/editors, to offset the cost of having people type something in the address bar of their browsers which no longer works as they expect? &#x200b;—msh210℠ (talk) 18:50, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * How would my proposal make the address bar of someone no longer work as they expect?
 * Wiktionary:Shortcut may be a shortcut to Wiktionary:Shortcuts, because the pluralized name would be expected in English; then, both names would be functional.
 * WT:SC does not seem to be not a well-known shortcut to Wiktionary:Shortcut.
 * On the other hand sc= is a well-known parameter meaning "script", which is used by, , and other major templates, so WT:SC pointing to the page that explains scripts is a natural choice. --Daniel. 19:10, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Re "How would...": By making http://en.wiktionary,org/wiki/WT:SC point to something other than what it has hitherto. Shortcuts are especially useful for typing into address bars: that whatlinkshere doesn't show much use doesn't mean it's not used. Re "both names [Wiktionary:Shortcut and Wiktionary:Shortcuts] would be functional": They are already. Re "sc= is a well-known parameter": You're right, of course; IMO that reason doesn't outweigh the fact that it would break the current shortcut; what do others think? Note that [ [Wiktionary:Shortcut]] does say, right at the top, "'WT:SC' redirects here. You may be looking for Wiktionary:Scripts". &#x200b;—msh210℠ (talk) 19:22, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * IMO the benefits outweigh the disadvantages, but not by much. Weak support. --Yair rand (talk) 19:30, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Shortcuts are not only typed in address bars, but also linked from pages. The number of links is high for well-known shortcuts such as Special:WhatLinksHere/Wiktionary:ELE and Special:WhatLinksHere/Wiktionary:GP, so the Special:WhatLinksHere/Wiktionary:SC does show that this shortcut is not much used. In fact, the page Wiktionary:Shortcut is short and rarely edited, which are additional reasons to not worry about its traffic. (other improvements such as expansion and updates would certainly be welcome, as a separate subject)
 * I have added the message "'WT:SC' redirects here. You may be looking for Wiktionary:Scripts." today after noticing the lack of SC pointing to scripts. Evidently, if my proposal comes into effect, a similar message would be placed at the top of Wiktionary:Shortcuts. --Daniel. 19:40, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The small numbers of edits and links to WT:Shortcut are at best irrelevant to the proposal. The page is intended as an aide-memoire. It may well get a great deal of use without much editing. In fact, the relative stability of the page should be evidence in favor of a very conservative policy with respect to changing the shortcuts: users expect shortcuts not to change. Let me suggest that WT:SCR is not now in use. DCDuring TALK 20:21, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * DCDuring, I have an analysis different from yours: That the relative stability of Shortcut is not "evidence in favor of a very conservative policy with respect to changing the shortcuts"; that is, as I said, evidence that this particular page is at best not much used, because it simply does not serve its purpose well: it lists only 32 of the 295 redirected pages, therefore it cannot be a reliable resource or aide-memoire for the status of 263 pages. I'd expect the list of shortcuts to be more regularly updated, given that it is linked directly from the affected pages.
 * A good way that I can think of, to known whether or not shortcuts have been changed, is of course by looking at their histories, like in this affirmative example:
 * In fact, there are at least two precedential discussions about changing various shortcuts at once: --Daniel. 04:52, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I find incomprehensible your facile identification of use with editing changes. Also, your failure to grasp what makes an aide-memoire useful for normal humans. As the page states, it is for the core items, not, for example, for the pages that are formed by A + language code, which are of greatest interest to someone who knows the language code for the languages of interest. An aide-memoire is hardly necessary for such. Adding a large number of shortcuts that don't need reminding to WT:SC would render it much less useful. It may well be that the comprehensive list should also have a shortcut (WT:SCC comes to mind.). DCDuring TALK 10:06, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Your idea of adding a large number of shortcuts to Shortcut is, as you say, irrelevant to the proposal; however, the page is rather useless already. In my opinion, your other idea of using WT:SCR for Scripts is not bad, but just not as good as WT:SC for the same page.
 * Pardon my supposed blindness on the reasoning of normal humans; yet, I can easily discriminate between two groups of people by their different knowledge and needs: normal humans and Wiktionary editors. The former is not expected to know that repetitive shortcuts like WT:AEN, WT:AES and WT:RE:ja exist, so a page like Wiktionary:Shortcuts ideally should help these users, at least by pointing the patterns. The lack of such an explanation is one of the reasons for me to affirm that this page is of poor quality, therefore likely to be not used and definitely a bad resource to check whether shortcuts in general are or not changed. --Daniel. 18:55, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You could always improve it. Although it might not me in line with your strategic objective of saving that last keystroke. DCDuring TALK 22:45, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
 * As a relative newcomer, I have not yet internalized the names of all these shortcuts, so I'm all for the aide-memoire. Support. - Robin 11:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)